Experimental Brews
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    There have been a few things that have come up recently that cross the line between "trying something new" and "EXPERIMENTAL BREW"

    I thought we should start a thread dedicated to experiments we have either tried, would like to try, or think someone else should try because we are afraid.

    Just post a short snippet - experiment name, description and what the status of the experiment is.

    we will split off new discussions around specific experiments.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    Experiment #1 - Coconut Water Brew

    I had a couple of coconuts, with sweet water inside them and i didnt feel like drinking a gallon of sweet coconut water, so... what else could i do but try to ferment it? The wort was 50% coconut water 50% DME and water, OG around 1.055. Pitched with S-05. It's still in the little jug primary. it's totally cleared and ready to bottle and carb. maybe i'll get around to that soon.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    What was the OG of the coconut water?
    Sign here______________________________
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063

    What was the OG of the coconut water?



    it was around 1.025-1.030 if i remember correctly

    edit - this odd medical article puts coconut water around 1.020-1.025, i'd say that's likely correct.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,687
    Lakewood said:

    Experiment #1 - Coconut Water Brew

    I had a couple of coconuts, with sweet water inside them and i didnt feel like drinking a gallon of sweet coconut water, so... what else could i do but try to ferment it? The wort was 50% coconut water 50% DME and water, OG around 1.055. Pitched with S-05. It's still in the little jug primary. it's totally cleared and ready to bottle and carb. maybe i'll get around to that soon.


    I like coconut. How long has this been sitting around?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    I'm going to try my hand at sake here in a bit, cook up a bunch of glutinous rice till overdone and mushy, add the yeast ball things they sell in my local Asian market, and see if it liquefies into drinkable stuff.

    Not super experimental, but based on my lack of knowledge (aside from those yeast ball things) I would say it qualifies...
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    Yup, I think there is a rice wine thread on HBT. It works.
    Sign here______________________________
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    my wife is oh so in love with the Saison or just about any farmhouse style - not big on fruit beers - good for me because neither am I - she has kept hounding me about making a White Grape Saison but I'm just not interested in something that might be like effervescent fruit juice or aka Diet Rite white grape soda - she has asked "What about buying white grapes and halving them and racking over them?" or better yet - "what about using 60/40 water to white grape juice ratio as mashing liquid?" For someone so new like me, I feel like this is a overly tart/sour/ gusher brew waiting to happen - I'd feel like I'd have to due a ton of research on the sugar amounts in white grapes and then wonder whether or not I should even add prime sugar in the bottling bucket. If I'm over complicating the idea or taking too much of a risk with this one - let me know - if it is doable, I'll still have to decide on whether I want to let the wife know! Haha!

    Maybe I just need to do a really low sessionable one like 3-3.5% in mind and just use 25% grape juice.
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    It looks like white grapes are around 15% sugar by weight. If you use fresh fruit that would be a safe number to calculate with. I've heard that it's good to freeze fruit and let it thaw before adding to a fermenting beer because the ice crystals cut up all the cell walls and let the juices out much easier. You don't need to worry about a gusher as long as you let it ferment out like any other beer.
    Sign here______________________________
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    I too am not a fan of fruit beers .... but I have wanted for a long time to do a blonde ale or something else fairly light with manzanita berries
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    I wouldn't mash with the juice. You don't want to boil the juice and it might skew the mash pH too much anyway.

    You are over thinking and I think you should give it a try. Pick a saison recipe, make the batch a little short, top up with the juice, ferment it out and prime like normal.
    Sign here______________________________
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    I have a "fruit" beer I did a while back. Anybody see the Beelzeboss recipe in BYO several years back?
    Sign here______________________________
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    C_dubbs said:

    Lakewood said:

    Experiment #1 - Coconut Water Brew

    I had a couple of coconuts, with sweet water inside them and i didnt feel like drinking a gallon of sweet coconut water, so... what else could i do but try to ferment it? The wort was 50% coconut water 50% DME and water, OG around 1.055. Pitched with S-05. It's still in the little jug primary. it's totally cleared and ready to bottle and carb. maybe i'll get around to that soon.


    I like coconut. How long has this been sitting around?


    i brewed it in december
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063

    I have a "fruit" beer I did a while back. Anybody see the Beelzeboss recipe in BYO several years back?



    no, i dont remember that one
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    I think it was considered an imperial wit. The citrus flavor came from Mt Dew.
    Sign here______________________________
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063

    I think it was considered an imperial wit. The citrus flavor came from Mt Dew.



    ha! that pretty funny. that's an experimental brew for sure
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228

    I wouldn't mash with the juice. You don't want to boil the juice and it might skew the mash pH too much anyway.

    You are over thinking and I think you should give it a try. Pick a saison recipe, make the batch a little short, top up with the juice, ferment it out and prime like normal.



    would you say maybe 4.5 wort, .5 gal white grape juice - or should I use a whole gal - diff between 10-20% of fermentables
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    You want a saison to be dry so I wouldn't be scary of pushing that 20% mark. It may get too grapey though. I default to those with more knowledge/experience.
    Sign here______________________________
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    heck - I think much like the Dr. Pepper Dubbel I've read about - I might even just grab 2, 2 liters of white grape soda, let em' go flat and throw in some saison yeast as experiment before I commit further - would love to see how 3711 plays with that - although, I'm sure it will def taste more "processed flavorey"
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    you could maybe do a small 1gallon batch of hopped dme wort, then top with grape juice, that might taste more closely aligned with your end result and it wouldnt take much effort.

    CZs
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    Lakewood said:

    you could maybe do a small 1gallon batch of hopped dme wort, then top with grape juice, that might taste more closely aligned with your end result and it wouldnt take much effort.



    and this is exactly the kind of idea that keeps my wife lovin' the hobby - I might even have her do this small brew by herself with my assistance so she can really own it - now, we'll see how good she is with the sharing part like I am :)

  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    CZs said:

    Lakewood said:

    you could maybe do a small 1gallon batch of hopped dme wort, then top with grape juice, that might taste more closely aligned with your end result and it wouldnt take much effort.



    and this is exactly the kind of idea that keeps my wife lovin' the hobby - I might even have her do this small brew by herself with my assistance so she can really own it - now, we'll see how good she is with the sharing part like I am :)



    double win!
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,687

    Pick a saison recipe, make the batch a little short, top up with the juice, ferment it out and prime like normal.



    Interesting. Top up the fermenter with juice. I want a hefe with blueberry juice. Is that a thing?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    C_dubbs said:

    Pick a saison recipe, make the batch a little short, top up with the juice, ferment it out and prime like normal.



    Interesting. Top up the fermenter with juice. I want a hefe with blueberry juice. Is that a thing?


    it is now! do it and let us know
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,708
    i have never, nor will i ever brew anything in the least bit experimental!!!!!!!

    [-(
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063

    i have never, nor will i ever brew anything in the least bit experimental!!!!!!!

    [-(



    =((
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,708
    unless, of course, you're going to count these:

    http://homebrewforums.net/discussion/566/burnt-honey-ale/p1

    http://homebrewforums.net/discussion/341/berliner-wiesse#Item_25

    and the all brett/lacto stuff, the peanut butter ale, the belgian 2.5, the chile ale, the curly video stuff that shall not be named, kombucha, and the kefir -both milk and water.


    ;)
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    C_dubbs said:

    Pick a saison recipe, make the batch a little short, top up with the juice, ferment it out and prime like normal.



    Interesting. Top up the fermenter with juice. I want a hefe with blueberry juice. Is that a thing?


    How is that different than adding fruit in secondary? You are just adding a more processed version of the fruit for the sake time.
    Sign here______________________________
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,708

    C_dubbs said:

    Pick a saison recipe, make the batch a little short, top up with the juice, ferment it out and prime like normal.



    Interesting. Top up the fermenter with juice. I want a hefe with blueberry juice. Is that a thing?


    How is that different than adding fruit in secondary? You are just adding a more processed version of the fruit for the sake time.


    and a measured/consistent level of acid. using actual fruit can be a crapshoot.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063

    C_dubbs said:

    Pick a saison recipe, make the batch a little short, top up with the juice, ferment it out and prime like normal.



    Interesting. Top up the fermenter with juice. I want a hefe with blueberry juice. Is that a thing?


    How is that different than adding fruit in secondary? You are just adding a more processed version of the fruit for the sake time.


    seems like a good idea
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    the skins of fruit often contain a lot of the more intense flavors, but if just adding juice works well, that would be a better choice
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    Tried that BErliner-Weisse thing-a-ma-jig. Brewed two gallons - 1.030 OG. Split it up into two 1-gallon jugs. In the first jug I pitched WLP004 and let it ferment per usual. The #2 jug got a packet of sourdough starter bugs (lactobacillus and "wild yeast"). Let #2 sit for approx one week, though I can't remember exactly how long. I blended the two gallons together, which is where they sit right now. I guess I will pitch some brett at some point, maybe, but I am also thinking of just letting it age as is.

    Current state
    photo (2).JPG
    1280 x 960 - 501K
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    Evan_B said:

    Tried that BErliner-Weisse thing-a-ma-jig. Brewed two gallons - 1.030 OG. Split it up into two 1-gallon jugs. In the first jug I pitched WLP004 and let it ferment per usual. The #2 jug got a packet of sourdough starter bugs (lactobacillus and "wild yeast"). Let #2 sit for approx one week, though I can't remember exactly how long. I blended the two gallons together, which is where they sit right now. I guess I will pitch some brett at some point, maybe, but I am also thinking of just letting it age as is.

    Current state



    have you sampled along the way?
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    I took a couple taste tests early on. The tart lacto character was definitely present, but overall it tasted a little watered down.


    Just took a small sample right now. Gravity was at 1.012 and there is almost no flavor to speak of.

    I think my problem was using just the sparge runnings as the portion that I soured. I am pretty sure this is the cause of the watered down flavor. I could pitch the brett and see if that will give it a little character, but I kind of want to try this again from scratch. I did throw this whole thing together at the last minute,
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    Evan_B said:

    I took a couple taste tests early on. The tart lacto character was definitely present, but overall it tasted a little watered down.


    Just took a small sample right now. Gravity was at 1.012 and there is almost no flavor to speak of.

    I think my problem was using just the sparge runnings as the portion that I soured. I am pretty sure this is the cause of the watered down flavor. I could pitch the brett and see if that will give it a little character, but I kind of want to try this again from scratch. I did throw this whole thing together at the last minute,



    i doubt adding brett at this stage would do anything but make it musty.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    My microbiology professor also said he would be willing to give me a slant of lactobacillus acidophilus. At least I would then know what I was using instead of a packet of sourdough starter. Not that it isn't good for sourdough, cause it is.
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    I took a couple taste tests early on. The tart lacto character was definitely present, but overall it tasted a little watered down.


    Just took a small sample right now. Gravity was at 1.012 and there is almost no flavor to speak of.

    I think my problem was using just the sparge runnings as the portion that I soured. I am pretty sure this is the cause of the watered down flavor. I could pitch the brett and see if that will give it a little character, but I kind of want to try this again from scratch. I did throw this whole thing together at the last minute,



    i doubt adding brett at this stage would do anything but make it musty.


    I think I might close the door on this experiment, and plan things out a little more.
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    I took a couple taste tests early on. The tart lacto character was definitely present, but overall it tasted a little watered down.


    Just took a small sample right now. Gravity was at 1.012 and there is almost no flavor to speak of.

    I think my problem was using just the sparge runnings as the portion that I soured. I am pretty sure this is the cause of the watered down flavor. I could pitch the brett and see if that will give it a little character, but I kind of want to try this again from scratch. I did throw this whole thing together at the last minute,



    i doubt adding brett at this stage would do anything but make it musty.


    I think I might close the door on this experiment, and plan things out a little more.


    what was the starting gravity?
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    I took a couple taste tests early on. The tart lacto character was definitely present, but overall it tasted a little watered down.


    Just took a small sample right now. Gravity was at 1.012 and there is almost no flavor to speak of.

    I think my problem was using just the sparge runnings as the portion that I soured. I am pretty sure this is the cause of the watered down flavor. I could pitch the brett and see if that will give it a little character, but I kind of want to try this again from scratch. I did throw this whole thing together at the last minute,



    i doubt adding brett at this stage would do anything but make it musty.


    I think I might close the door on this experiment, and plan things out a little more.


    what was the starting gravity?


    Thats the other thing. What little notes I did take have seemed to disappear on me. If my memory serves me correctly it was about 1.030 for the primary wort, and around 1.020 for the runnings that were soured before I mixed them.
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    I took a couple taste tests early on. The tart lacto character was definitely present, but overall it tasted a little watered down.


    Just took a small sample right now. Gravity was at 1.012 and there is almost no flavor to speak of.

    I think my problem was using just the sparge runnings as the portion that I soured. I am pretty sure this is the cause of the watered down flavor. I could pitch the brett and see if that will give it a little character, but I kind of want to try this again from scratch. I did throw this whole thing together at the last minute,



    i doubt adding brett at this stage would do anything but make it musty.


    I think I might close the door on this experiment, and plan things out a little more.


    what was the starting gravity?


    Thats the other thing. What little notes I did take have seemed to disappear on me. If my memory serves me correctly it was about 1.030 for the primary wort, and around 1.020 for the runnings that were soured before I mixed them.


    oh, wow. yeah that's pretty low so i wouldn't expect much body or flavor. sort of the bud light of funky beers ;)
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    I took a couple taste tests early on. The tart lacto character was definitely present, but overall it tasted a little watered down.


    Just took a small sample right now. Gravity was at 1.012 and there is almost no flavor to speak of.

    I think my problem was using just the sparge runnings as the portion that I soured. I am pretty sure this is the cause of the watered down flavor. I could pitch the brett and see if that will give it a little character, but I kind of want to try this again from scratch. I did throw this whole thing together at the last minute,



    i doubt adding brett at this stage would do anything but make it musty.


    I think I might close the door on this experiment, and plan things out a little more.


    what was the starting gravity?


    Thats the other thing. What little notes I did take have seemed to disappear on me. If my memory serves me correctly it was about 1.030 for the primary wort, and around 1.020 for the runnings that were soured before I mixed them.


    oh, wow. yeah that's pretty low so i wouldn't expect much body or flavor. sort of the bud light of funky beers ;)


    This makes me hate myself.
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    I took a couple taste tests early on. The tart lacto character was definitely present, but overall it tasted a little watered down.


    Just took a small sample right now. Gravity was at 1.012 and there is almost no flavor to speak of.

    I think my problem was using just the sparge runnings as the portion that I soured. I am pretty sure this is the cause of the watered down flavor. I could pitch the brett and see if that will give it a little character, but I kind of want to try this again from scratch. I did throw this whole thing together at the last minute,



    i doubt adding brett at this stage would do anything but make it musty.


    I think I might close the door on this experiment, and plan things out a little more.


    what was the starting gravity?


    Thats the other thing. What little notes I did take have seemed to disappear on me. If my memory serves me correctly it was about 1.030 for the primary wort, and around 1.020 for the runnings that were soured before I mixed them.


    oh, wow. yeah that's pretty low so i wouldn't expect much body or flavor. sort of the bud light of funky beers ;)


    This makes me hate myself.
    :(

    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    Haha
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    Evan_B said:

    Haha



    the self loathing really doesn't come into play until you drink the two gallons of near beer to get rid of it.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    you have roughly 2% ABV beer there.

    it tastes like water 'cause that's what it is.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Just a thought ...... put some of it in the freezer ... to get rid of some water ...
    ?????????????
    That'll bump it up a notch
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    ceannt said:

    Just a thought ...... put some of it in the freezer ... to get rid of some water ...
    ?????????????
    That'll bump it up a notch



    I guess I could try that. Though my disappointment in this one makes me want to dump all the more, haha. Like I said, this was a haphazard batch, but I already have some ideas to improve the results (hopefully).

    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    my brother in law, the macro brew drinker, is a fantastic ego booster - my mistakes are "blue ribbon prizes" to him because he's just not used to more unique brews

    "That is so different - awesome man - let me know if you have any more."
    To myself: "You got it buddy, I know where to push my mistakes! - Not one drop shall be wasted on any of my brews henceforth!" lol
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,708
    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    I took a couple taste tests early on. The tart lacto character was definitely present, but overall it tasted a little watered down.


    Just took a small sample right now. Gravity was at 1.012 and there is almost no flavor to speak of.

    I think my problem was using just the sparge runnings as the portion that I soured. I am pretty sure this is the cause of the watered down flavor. I could pitch the brett and see if that will give it a little character, but I kind of want to try this again from scratch. I did throw this whole thing together at the last minute,



    i doubt adding brett at this stage would do anything but make it musty.


    I think I might close the door on this experiment, and plan things out a little more.


    what was the starting gravity?


    Thats the other thing. What little notes I did take have seemed to disappear on me. If my memory serves me correctly it was about 1.030 for the primary wort, and around 1.020 for the runnings that were soured before I mixed them.


    oh, wow. yeah that's pretty low so i wouldn't expect much body or flavor. sort of the bud light of funky beers ;)


    This makes me hate myself.


    but the lacto would have chewed up the body and flavor components anyway. toss in some brett and feed it a little sugar.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312

    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    I took a couple taste tests early on. The tart lacto character was definitely present, but overall it tasted a little watered down.


    Just took a small sample right now. Gravity was at 1.012 and there is almost no flavor to speak of.

    I think my problem was using just the sparge runnings as the portion that I soured. I am pretty sure this is the cause of the watered down flavor. I could pitch the brett and see if that will give it a little character, but I kind of want to try this again from scratch. I did throw this whole thing together at the last minute,



    i doubt adding brett at this stage would do anything but make it musty.


    I think I might close the door on this experiment, and plan things out a little more.


    what was the starting gravity?


    Thats the other thing. What little notes I did take have seemed to disappear on me. If my memory serves me correctly it was about 1.030 for the primary wort, and around 1.020 for the runnings that were soured before I mixed them.


    oh, wow. yeah that's pretty low so i wouldn't expect much body or flavor. sort of the bud light of funky beers ;)


    This makes me hate myself.


    but the lacto would have chewed up the body and flavor components anyway. toss in some brett and feed it a little sugar.


    I think I want to start again and be a little more thorough this time. I want to wait until I get my slant of Lacto acidophilus
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,687

    C_dubbs said:

    Pick a saison recipe, make the batch a little short, top up with the juice, ferment it out and prime like normal.



    Interesting. Top up the fermenter with juice. I want a hefe with blueberry juice. Is that a thing?


    How is that different than adding fruit in secondary? You are just adding a more processed version of the fruit for the sake time.

    Yep. Time. Primary. Keg. Done.
    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    I took a couple taste tests early on. The tart lacto character was definitely present, but overall it tasted a little watered down.


    Just took a small sample right now. Gravity was at 1.012 and there is almost no flavor to speak of.

    I think my problem was using just the sparge runnings as the portion that I soured. I am pretty sure this is the cause of the watered down flavor. I could pitch the brett and see if that will give it a little character, but I kind of want to try this again from scratch. I did throw this whole thing together at the last minute,



    i doubt adding brett at this stage would do anything but make it musty.


    I think I might close the door on this experiment, and plan things out a little more.


    what was the starting gravity?


    Thats the other thing. What little notes I did take have seemed to disappear on me. If my memory serves me correctly it was about 1.030 for the primary wort, and around 1.020 for the runnings that were soured before I mixed them.


    oh, wow. yeah that's pretty low so i wouldn't expect much body or flavor. sort of the bud light of funky beers ;)


    This makes me hate myself.

    Ha!
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    So I dumped the failed Berliner Weisse today, and shed a single tear.
    With that over and done with I decided to design my next tentative plan for this brew. I do not know when I will be able to brew it.

    2.25 gal batch

    67% Pilsen Malt
    33% White Wheat Malt

    0.125oz Willamette (FWH)

    Anticipated:
    OG- 1.034
    SRM - 3
    IBU - 6.4
    ABV - 3.5%

    I plan to pitch half (1/2) pack of US-05 WITH a 500ml starter of Lactobacillus acidophilus.

    In the spirit of experimentation I plan to try my first decoction with this brew.
    Protein rest @ 130 for 20 minutes
    Single decoction of 2.4 qts boiled for 15 minutes
    Sacc rest @ 147 for 30 minutes
    Increase Sacc temp to 155 for an additional 30 minutes
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    Evan_B said:

    So I dumped the failed Berliner Weisse today, and shed a single tear.
    With that over and done with I decided to design my next tentative plan for this brew. I do not know when I will be able to brew it.

    2.25 gal batch

    67% Pilsen Malt
    33% White Wheat Malt

    0.125oz Willamette (FWH)

    Anticipated:
    OG- 1.034
    SRM - 3
    IBU - 6.4
    ABV - 3.5%

    I plan to pitch half (1/2) pack of US-05 WITH a 500ml starter of Lactobacillus acidophilus.

    In the spirit of experimentation I plan to try my first decoction with this brew.
    Protein rest @ 130 for 20 minutes
    Single decoction of 2.4 qts boiled for 15 minutes
    Sacc rest @ 147 for 30 minutes
    Increase Sacc temp to 155 for an additional 30 minutes



    at 034 OG and only 33% wheat, i would expect this to be very thin and watery. If you want to stay sub 4% abv i would flip the grist %'s and shoot for 2/3rd wheat. You can add 10% rice hulls if a stuck sparge is a concern, but i think you are BIAB so that shouldn't be a problem at all
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,708
    the abv is wrong anyway. the lacto will eat up a portion of the fermentables.


    and the decoction mash is completely unnecessary for this type of beer, but it's a great batch size to get acquainted with the process.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063

    the abv is wrong anyway. the lacto will eat up a portion of the fermentables.


    and the decoction mash is completely unnecessary for this type of beer, but it's a great batch size to get acquainted with the process.



    right, with the lacto stealing away precious sugars, the abv will be even lower... how much lower? who knows. i personally wouldn't do anything this small (ABV wise, not batch size) as i think it would invariably be disappointing to me.... but i don't really drink beers below 6% abv. still flipping the grist ratio will give you something with much more body.

    i missed the decoction... im with fz on that, it's really not going to do anything in this beer. you'd get more malt complexity by tossing in a few oz of crystal 15.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    Yeah, I know the decoction thing is not necessary, but the sake of trying new things I wanted to give it a shot.

    As far as they ABV goes, I do want to try and keep this somewhat to style, and these beers are generally pretty low. I would say 3.5% is even at the high end for berliner weisse. I could probably bump it up to 4.5% .
    Also, I wonder if I skip the sparge , that could take away from the watery-ness . It won't help my efficiency at all, but I'm not going into this with hopes of high efficiency.

    Thanks for the notes so far!
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    Evan_B said:

    Yeah, I know the decoction thing is not necessary, but the sake of trying new things I wanted to give it a shot.

    As far as they ABV goes, I do want to try and keep this somewhat to style, and these beers are generally pretty low. I would say 3.5% is even at the high end for berliner weisse. I could probably bump it up to 4.5% .
    Also, I wonder if I skip the sparge , that could take away from the watery-ness . It won't help my efficiency at all, but I'm not going into this with hopes of high efficiency.

    Thanks for the notes so far!



    let us know how it turns out
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    anyone thought of using Propel flavored water w/mash? - i might go that route with the grape saison idea for the wife's 30th
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    CZs said:

    anyone thought of using Propel flavored water w/mash? - i might go that route with the grape saison idea for the wife's 30th



    What's it flavored / sweetened with?
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    sweetened with sucralose it seems, and maybe sodium might be an issue with 121 mg per 12 oz bottle?
    http://www.pepsicobeveragefacts.com/infobyproduct.php?prod_type=1026&prod_size=16.9&brand_fam_id=1366&brand_id=1045&product=Propel+Zero+-+Berry
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    How much are you thinking?

    I don't think the yeast will touch the sucralose
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    just a 2.5 gal batch - maybe even try this with just 1.25 gal, 3711, and some pils - keep it simple until I see the results before I step up and try to make a full case with it
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    CZs said:

    just a 2.5 gal batch - maybe even try this with just 1.25 gal, 3711, and some pils - keep it simple until I see the results before I step up and try to make a full case with it



    i meant how much sport drink in comparison to other ingredients. i have a feeling there will either be no more than a hint of flavor or it will be super sweet. and with the salt and flavoring... well... yay! it's an experiment!
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    hmmm, the more I've read about salt in brews, the more it sounds like it is supposed to mask bitterness, possibly enhance maltiness, give lighter beers more fizz, and adds the illusion of more body

    some people add a pinch right into the glass and of course, how can I forget some Cervezas with lime/salt rimmed glasses. Some say old timers add it to their macro brews, well - possibly because some of them are pee worthy.

    A saison doesn't need to be maltier and I like them dry / little effervescent- but, maybe if I wanted that grape flavor using Propel for the sake of saying I did it, I need to do my usual bottle bucket method and not worry about sucrose, the left-handed sugar that I've read yeast don't play with, and is used at the back door to sweeten beer. Sounds like maybe a 8.3% grape propel addition to 91.7 % saison bottle to start, aka 11 oz Saison, 1 oz Grape Propel.

    After I Just hurt my brain over-thinking this - I'll go get a flippin Saison and a Grape Propel Zero and mix with the two percentages and go from there.

    EDIT: I'm going to go get some Tank 7 and some Grape Propel Zero - will update later tonight with tasting / aroma notes - might even get a few single bottles of other Propel flavorings to see which I think is the better pairing - great thread by the way. This percentage is about the equivalent of 48 oz, or, 6 cups of Propel Zero in the bucket for a 5 gal batch. I might just do two small batches side by side - in the bottle v. in the bottle bucket
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,708
    CZs said:



    EDIT: I'm going to go get some Tank 7 and some Grape Propel Zero - will update later tonight with tasting / aroma notes - might even get a few single bottles of other Propel flavorings to see which I think is the better pairing - great thread by the way



    read-drink a beer and toy around with a funky idea. yes, always a good plan.

    CZsThym
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    There are a few different salts used in brewing... i'm thinking we should do a thread/topic on it for some completeness. Different salts do different things to the profile of a beer. They do have one thing in common though, they taste better and better the more you add, up to some magic point, at which it goes from rich and tasty to gross and undrinkable almost instantaneously.

    I think the amount you are talking about will be fine from that standpoint. I just wanted to put that out there.

    BTW -
    NaCl (table salt) tends to mask bitterness and add the traditional salty flavor, and increases mouthfeel and softness.
    KCl actually improves bitterness, making it deeper and more refined, while still reducing the overall astringency of the bitterness profile. It does not add a 'salty' flavor, but does soften the overall mouthfeel.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    thanks for the diff salt info - would love to hear others' experiences using either/both - just as an update - I poured 1 oz of Grape Propel Zero, and 11 oz of Tank 7 into a bottle (both around 38-40F) - then poured into tulip glass. I get a slight hint of "another flavor" when comparing side by side with just Tank 7 - I think that is a good sign actually, Tank 7 is a pretty bold farmhouse IMO - not getting anything additional in the nose. Will add 2 oz / 10 oz concoction later and come back to see how much more " Propel grape" I'm getting. I would say the other thing I notice is there is a bit (only slightly) larger head with the Propel Zero