Boiling extract
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    I have heard more and more discussion about not needing to boil extract for a long period of time, basically the one hour called for with most kits. There is a need for boiling hops for 1 hour for bitterness, etc, but I guess you can just add the extract at the end, with 20 minutes left to sanitize. I read an article in BYO that mentions needing to cut back on hops if you add extract late. I need to reread again.

    What are your thoughts for the extract brewers out there? One reason is especially for light beers because the malt can darken during a long boil.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,796
    No need to boil extract for more than 15 minutes .... if using steeping grains ... add a small amount of DME to the runnings ... calculate your boil gravity for hop utilization ... then add the bulk of extract late
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,530
    technically, the extracts don't need to be boiled at all. they get all the treatment they need during the manufacturing process. it should come sanitized already. if you get pre-hopped extract, you can do no boil batches.

    as for the variance in hops, it's because the extraction rate in the lower gravity wort (before you add the extract).
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,796
    Need to either have a program that can handle versatile calculations ... or do them by hand
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,530
    yeah, what he said.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,796
    Not only will extracts darken .... a long hard boil will almost always give you that "extract twang".... that has given homebrew a bad name
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 120,507
    ceannt said:

    Need to either have a program that can handle versatile calculations ... or do them by hand


    Use muh spreadsheet.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,796
    Lakewood said:

    ceannt said:

    Need to either have a program that can handle versatile calculations ... or do them by hand


    Use muh spreadsheet.

    Yup.. mine works too :)
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 120,507
    ceannt said:

    Not only will extracts darken .... a long hard boil will almost always give you that "extract twang".... that has given homebrew a bad name



    This too. Adding extract late maintains a freshness to the taste by keeping some of the lighter flavors in tact.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,530
    ceannt said:

    Lakewood said:

    ceannt said:

    Need to either have a program that can handle versatile calculations ... or do them by hand


    Use muh spreadsheet.

    Yup.. mine works too :)


    you two should post them where they're easy to access.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    Yea, and what is muh? Where are these things?
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    Si
    ceannt said:

    No need to boil extract for more than 15 minutes .... if using steeping grains ... add a small amount of DME to the runnings ... calculate your boil gravity for hop utilization ... then add the bulk of extract late



    Since I'm doing a full boil, do I just steep as needed, add hops on schedule and last 15 minutes add DME or LME? You also recommend adding some of the extract during the length of the boil. I think I got it.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,796
    Yep.... for a full boil throw in about a pound of DME .. and calculate your boil gravity .... this keeps the boil from being too thin .... back when I brewed this way I used LME for the bulk of the extract (added late)
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    So I'm not clear on the boil gravity. Fill me in, I'm missing something obviously.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,796
    Use the gravity of what you are boiling, for calculating hop utilization .... rather than the gravity of the beer after the late extract additions....
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,530
    say you're ending beer, with the extract added, will be 1.060, but before you add it, the gravity will be 1.030. to calculate the ibu's you want to achieve in the final beer, you would enter 1.030 as the gravity into whatever program/spreadsheet you're using. that way it will tell you the correct amount of hops to add to your beer so that you get the correct ibu's for the 1.060 beer, because you will extract different amounts of alpha acids (ibu's) from boiling the hops in 1.030 wort versus boiling the same amount in 1.060 wort.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 120,507
    Basically, the efficiency with which the bittering agent is extracted from the hops is effected by the gravity of the wort. The higher the wort gravity, the lower the Utilization. So the same hop additions (time and AA%) in a low gravity wort will give a more bitter beer than those in a higher gravity wort.

    Therefore, since the majority of the isomerization is going to occur during the portion of the boil where your gravity is lower (you haven't added the sugars yet) you will get a higher utilization than if you had just added all of the LME/DME at the beginning of the boil.

    To get a good approximation of the resulting extraction you can use my spreadsheet, enter the portion of the grain bill that will be boiled for the full 60 minutes on the grain bill tabe, then enter the balance of the LME/DME on the adjuncts tab as a post boil fermentable adjunct.

    The hop utilization will be calculated using the boil gravity, and but the ABV and OG will be displayed properly.

    I've added a link to my template on the tools section, or you can download it here
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny