interesting.... how "hopped up" do you want it?
I would be tempted to FWH with a bunch of the Magnum.... 3-4 ounces? skip bittering additions entirely... and do late additions starting at 10-min. with the Crystal and Cascades.... maybe do all the Crystal between 5-min. and flame out....and dry hop with a bit more Cascades and just a touch of Chinook....

lot of options there... you could go in a lot of different directions with the hops you have on hand

Also, what do you think about upping the Mash temp? I'm thinking 155*

Too bad you don't have any Northern Brewer ..... wonderful in a Porter

jlw said:

I can get Northern Brewer. I just plugged in 4 oz of Magnum in FWH and it gave me like 254 ibu's. Yikes! Can this be correct?

no, shouldn't be anyway. i have used 3 oz of magnum before and it was nowhere near that.

is your volume set right?

as for the hops, i would use all those, with the exception of not all the magnum.
probably chinook, centennial and a little cascade for mad flava, magnum for FWH, and everything else is aroma and dry hopping.

What is the AA% of your Magnum? .... with your original grain bill ... I get 134 IBU with 4 ounces FWHed...

jlw said:

ceannt said:

What is the AA% of your Magnum? .... with your original grain bill ... I get 134 IBU with 4 ounces FWHed...

beersmith says 14%. Now these are older hops maybe a year old. I just checked again and yeah I have 4oz for 5.25 gallons. Also when you select FWH it still has the amount of steep time similar to boil. It defaults to 60 min. Not sure if that's correct? I dropped it to 0 min and I got zero ibu's.

I always calculate as a 20 minute addition.... the "perceived" bitterness is less than a 60 minutes boil ...

and you two are saying opposite things on the grain bill. Think I will take a look at my black IIPA grain bill.

jlw said:

and you two are saying opposite things on the grain bill. Think I will take a look at my black IIPA grain bill.

fight fight fight fight!

I tooled around with the original. Not sure if it's any better

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: George Washington Zombie Killer Robust Porter
Brewer: George Washington
Asst Brewer:
Style: Robust Porter
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.19 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.98 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.070 SG
Estimated Color: 34.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 160.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.4 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 71.1 %
1 lbs Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4 7.1 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.6 %
5.0 oz Molasses (80.0 SRM) Sugar 8 2.2 %
4.00 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - First Wort 20.0 min Hop 7 116.2 IBUs
1 lbs Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.1 %
4.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 6 1.8 %
1 lbs Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.1 %
0.25 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 5.0 IBUs
0.25 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 11 2.8 IBUs
0.25 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 0.9 IBUs
3.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 40.0 min Hop 9 35.5 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 14 lbs 1.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 18.19 qt of water at 171.8 F 156.0 F 45 min

Sparge: Drain mash tun, Batch sparge with 1 steps (4.54gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:

way way way more flavor hops. i would move the cascade from 40 minutes to 20 minutes as well. you have enough bittering hops for sure (might take an ounce out of that actually), but i don't think you'll get much hop flavor to stand against that grain bill as your flavor hops stand.

as i have said though, i am looking at this through the only lens i have, which is black ipa's. i have made several of those, some of which were probably technically porters.

bottom line, i may be wrong.

frydogbrews said:

way way way more flavor hops. i would move the cascade from 40 minutes to 20 minutes as well. you have enough bittering hops for sure (might take an ounce out of that actually), but i don't think you'll get much hop flavor to stand against that grain bill as your flavor hops stand.

as i have said though, i am looking at this through the only lens i have, which is black ipa's. i have made several of those, some of which were probably technically porters.

bottom line, i may be wrong.

with all the IBU from the FWH.... I wouldn't add any more hops until 15 min..... what he said about flavor...

FromZwolle said:

ceannt said:

frydogbrews said:

jlw said:

and you two are saying opposite things on the grain bill. Think I will take a look at my black IIPA grain bill.

we're saying the same thing, just two different ways.
that's a lot of big, flavorful, grain, and you might want to tweak it a little.
how you tweak it is personal preference, i mean, this is sort of a hybrid beer category after all.

i'll be making one of these as soon as new hops come out, so we should swap at some point.

I agree.... we just have a different "focus" ... both are legit... both will male good beer... mine is smoother.... his is sharper, with more "burnt coffee"....

that we differ on this focus should come as no suprise... look at our taste in hops... :)

i prefer to female a good beer.

Hah ..... *make ...
Dang autocorrect .....

i like the look of that recipe now, the only thing i think i would change is to make it 2 oz of centennial at ten minutes, but that's because its one of my favorite flavor hops out there.

twist my arm for more hops. The IBU's based on beer smith are 175. Now I am assuming that this being a porter it's not going to be that over the top hoppy?

Getting ready to order ingredients. Last couple of questions. I think a 60 min mash should be adequate for this beer. Any reason to go to 90? Also, 60 min boil or longer?

jlw said:

twist my arm for more hops. The IBU's based on beer smith are 175. Now I am assuming that this being a porter it's not going to be that over the top hoppy?

isn't the taste threshold around 100 ibus? i thought that's what i read somewhere. if so, it wouldn't matter much if you go over, as long as you can balance it out with roastedness and gravity.

frydogbrews said:

the whole taste threshold thing is kind of B.S.
some say its 80, some say its 100.
i have tested it with my own beers, making the same recipe with 150 ibu's and with 80 ibu's (just reduced all hops by percentage) and the were vastly different beers.

ibu's frighten me :-SS

i think i'll stick to under 60. :D

CB said:

FromZwolle said:

frydogbrews said:

the whole taste threshold thing is kind of B.S.
some say its 80, some say its 100.
i have tested it with my own beers, making the same recipe with 150 ibu's and with 80 ibu's (just reduced all hops by percentage) and the were vastly different beers.

ibu's frighten me :-SS

i think i'll stick to under 60. :D

This. I want to see how this beer turns out. Then do it and knock out 25% of the hops. B-)

I'll let you know when I GET to brew it. Friggen lhbs is closed for the weekend.

CB said:

jlw said:

CB said:

FromZwolle said:

frydogbrews said:

the whole taste threshold thing is kind of B.S.
some say its 80, some say its 100.
i have tested it with my own beers, making the same recipe with 150 ibu's and with 80 ibu's (just reduced all hops by percentage) and the were vastly different beers.

ibu's frighten me :-SS

i think i'll stick to under 60. :D

This. I want to see how this beer turns out. Then do it and knock out 25% of the hops. B-)

I'll let you know when I GET to brew it. Friggen lhbs is closed for the weekend.

BAH! Kick the door down. It's an emergency.

call the police and tell them that you locked yourself out. they'll break in for you!

Hmmm.... what's your water like? Could be that. Carbonates?

I have we'll water. Never had I tested and never have really had a problem. This bitterness is almost as if I ate a hop pellet.

I will dilute my water a lot .... with distilled ... if I brew something really hoppy

jlw said:

ceannt said:

I will dilute my water a lot .... with distilled ... if I brew something really hoppy

The weird thing is I have never had a problem like this before. My hoppy beers always turn out great. Hoping time will heal it, usually does.

Yep. A beer like this could stand to age some anyway ......
It could also be the Ph was lowered by the roasted malts ......???

i have had this happen once, that intense, sharp bitterness. it mellowed slightly with age, but ended up....dumping it. i dumped it. yeah. that's what i did with it. :^o

in my case it was because i accidentally doubled the amount of 60 minute hop additions.

jlw said:

frydogbrews said:

i have had this happen once, that intense, sharp bitterness. it mellowed slightly with age, but ended up....dumping it. i dumped it. yeah. that's what i did with it. :^o

in my case it was because i accidentally doubled the amount of 60 minute hop additions.

I hope I don't have to. I was going to send some to you and ceannt but I won't lt anyone drink this if it doesn't turn out good.

if it does turn out crappy, you can send it all to me. ;)

i just made a hoppy robust porter, posted the recipe here:
http://homebrewforums.net/discussion/593/hop-blackula#Item_3
supposed to be a black ipa, but then kind of watered it down, long story.
point is, i am on a well. it is very very hard water. which i really like. tastes delicious.
but i had to install a water softener because the glasses looked gross and we broke 3 coffee pots, etc..
so now i soften the water just above the level where it won't form film on the glasses, but not so softened that you feel all slippery and weird after a shower.

i make super hoppy beers regularly, but have just recently dipped my toes in the waters of dark malts.
neither have been overly bitter at all.
certainly not saying that it won't cause it, just not sure that that should be the first reason jumped too. i think it was the hop additions early in the boil.
also, i think it could have been the FWH, but i don't have all that experience with that because i was always afraid something liek the situation you are describing would happen.

happy to take a bottle and tell you what i think.

jlw said:

I also make super hopped up beers and have made plenty of dark beers. Never had this problem. My best beer is probably my black iipa.

i'll take one of those too! <):)

I am pretty sure we have hard water.

Yeah and we don't have any of that going on. I just think that it's over hopped (gasp). Or there just wasn't enough dark malts to balance the hops.

frydogbrews said:

jlw said:

I am pretty sure we have hard water.

if your water was hard enough to effect a beer significantly though, all your glasses would be cloudy,(like gross cloudy) you would be plopping your shower head in vinegar every month because it was clogged, and you would break lots of coffee pots. lots and lots of coffee pots.

I hate to get off topic, but why are your coffee pots breaking?

frydogbrews said:

jlw said:

I am pretty sure we have hard water.

if your water was hard enough to effect a beer significantly though, all your glasses would be cloudy,(like gross cloudy) you would be plopping your shower head in vinegar every month because it was clogged, and you would break lots of coffee pots. lots and lots of coffee pots.

Off Topic. What's the coffee pot angle?

frydogbrews said:

jlw said:

I am pretty sure we have hard water.

if your water was hard enough to effect a beer ... and you would break lots of coffee pots. lots and lots of coffee pots.

hmm.... i didn't realize my wife's clumsiness was a sign of hard water. I should have that checked out.