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So you don't want to spend another 6-10 bucks on yeast for the next batch? Just use what ya got sitting under the beer that's in there. Dumping old trub into new wort isn't the best option, for various reasons, so you'll need to 'wash' the yeast to use on another batch. Here's my simple method on how to do that. First, you'll need some sanitized containers. I just use mason jars, as that's what i have lying around. Boiling is a great way to sanitize them, but i don't feel like standing over an oven waiting to boil my jars, so i just fill them 3/4 full of water and stick them in the microwave for about ten minutes. The boiling water in the jar will be enough to sanitize, plus you'll have clean water in the jar for the next step. As soon as you stop nuking the jars, throw some foil on top of them to keep out any bugs while they cool.
Once the jars are cooled down to about room temp (under 80F), rack your beer out of the fermenter and dump in the water. Giver her a good swirl and let most of the junk settle back down. This should take about 30 minutes, maybe a little longer. I was cleaning my buckets, so I let this step happen in the jar, plus my bucket didn't fit in the fridge:
Once you see a good separation of trub from the now murky water, gently pour the water into yet another sanitized jar (or multiple). Here's the separation: I waited a little too long, so you can see the layer of creamy yeast:
Don't worry about getting a little bit of trub into the new jar, you can always pour off again. Here they are after chillin in the fridge overnight:
You can see the good yeast sitting on the bottom. the rest will drop out after a while in the fridge. Now you have some nice clean yeast you can throw into a starter when you're ready to brew again.The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake -
this is great.
my wife wants me to tell you that they make white plastic screw caps for all canning jars
(for use after opening a jar of salsa or whatever) both ball and kerr make them, super cheap on amazon. just relaying a message
great post, i may actually attempt washing yeast for the first time instead of just scooping it out and throwing it into a new batch of wort. -
frydogbrews said:
this is great.
my wife wants me to tell you that they make white plastic screw caps for all canning jars
(for use after opening a jar of salsa or whatever) both ball and kerr make them, super cheap on amazon. just relaying a message
great post, i may actually attempt washing yeast for the first time instead of just scooping it out and throwing it into a new batch of wort.
i do roughly the same process, but i use Erlenmeyer flasks so i can spin it real good without sloshing. i just use syran wrap to cover the mouth. also, i use a small tube to siphon the final washed yeast out and store it in white-labs style soda bottle pre-forms.The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny -
frydogbrews said:
this is great.
my wife wants me to tell you that they make white plastic screw caps for all canning jars
(for use after opening a jar of salsa or whatever) both ball and kerr make them, super cheap on amazon. just relaying a message
great post, i may actually attempt washing yeast for the first time instead of just scooping it out and throwing it into a new batch of wort.
i have some. i just need to sanitize them before i put them on.The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake -
Lakewood said:frydogbrews said:
this is great.
my wife wants me to tell you that they make white plastic screw caps for all canning jars
(for use after opening a jar of salsa or whatever) both ball and kerr make them, super cheap on amazon. just relaying a message
great post, i may actually attempt washing yeast for the first time instead of just scooping it out and throwing it into a new batch of wort.
i do roughly the same process, but i use Erlenmeyer flasks so i can spin it real good without sloshing. i just use syran wrap to cover the mouth. also, i use a small tube to siphon the final washed yeast out and store it in white-labs style soda bottle pre-forms.
that's a good idea for longer storage. i'll probably end up using this yeast this weekend, so I'll just end up decanting and adding some boiled dme solution on top.The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake -
I have heard of people washing with beer, like Budweiser. It is sanitized coming for the container and something about the carbonation helping. Know anything about that? I'm brewing @frydogbrews hop house 2 this weekend with Wyeast 1056 and I think I will brew again after I rack it off the yeast, maybe a week later and pitch that.
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screw hop house 2, i think 5 was the best one. maybe 6. whatever the one before the last one was....that was awesome. i think it was mostly centennial hops. damn good.
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I made 1 last year, I'm working up, but I swapped out bravo for magnum and adjusted some of the other hops and scaled for 5g, then rounded off some quantities. Now you tell me. I already bought all my stuff.
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just increase bittering hops by 5% and flavor hops by 25% and it will come out great.
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I use the about the same process. I need to get smaller jars for storage. I wonder if you could reuse the WLP vials?
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I have read that washed yeast is only good for a few life cycles before it changes. I have no idea of this is true?
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jlw said:
I have read that washed yeast is only good for a few life cycles before it changes. I have no idea of this is true?
i assume it is. but to what extent i don't know.The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake -
Benvarine said:
I have heard of people washing with beer, like Budweiser. It is sanitized coming for the container and something about the carbonation helping. Know anything about that? I'm brewing @frydogbrews hop house 2 this weekend with Wyeast 1056 and I think I will brew again after I rack it off the yeast, maybe a week later and pitch that.
i haven't tried using beer, but i've read that people have used it. i seem to recall reading that water was better (something about how the co2 and alcohol are waste products of the yeast and therefore slightly poisonous to them) but not by much. give it a try and let us know how it turns out.The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake -
FromZwolle said:jlw said:
I have read that washed yeast is only good for a few life cycles before it changes. I have no idea of this is true?
i assume it is. but to what extent i don't know.
the only experience i have is i washed wyeast 3711 my go to saison yeast. And the second batch using the washed yeast did not have the same level of saison funk. It wasn't as a good a beer as the original batch. Time between batches was probably 8 months. I also read time is a factor on washed yeast and you need to use quickly after. -
jlw said:FromZwolle said:jlw said:
I have read that washed yeast is only good for a few life cycles before it changes. I have no idea of this is true?
i assume it is. but to what extent i don't know.
the only experience i have is i washed wyeast 3711 my go to saison yeast. And the second batch using the washed yeast did not have the same level of saison funk. It wasn't as a good a beer as the original batch. Time between batches was probably 8 months. I also read time is a factor on washed yeast and you need to use quickly after.
yes. otherwise you're essentially telling them to hibernate and would need to wake them up with a starter in order to use them again.The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake -
jlw said:
I use the about the same process. I need to get smaller jars for storage. I wonder if you could reuse the WLP vials?
yes, i sanitize them with idophor and fill them up with washed yeast.The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny -
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jlw said:
one step cleaners have been proven to not sanitize anything, or so i've read. they're great for cleaning, but not sanitizing. you'd really only want to use a no rinse sanitizer like iodophor or star san.The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake -
one step sanitizes, it just doesn't sterilize.
its oxy-clean and few things clean better than oxygen.
i quit using it because you had to mix up a new batch when i needed some instead of star san which is good mixed up for months. -
frydogbrews said:
one step sanitizes, it just doesn't sterilize.
its oxy-clean and few things clean better than oxygen.
i quit using it because you had to mix up a new batch when i needed some instead of star san which is good mixed up for months.
wait a minute there! i read it on the internet, it has to be true!
The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake -
FromZwolle said:frydogbrews said:
one step sanitizes, it just doesn't sterilize.
its oxy-clean and few things clean better than oxygen.
i quit using it because you had to mix up a new batch when i needed some instead of star san which is good mixed up for months.
wait a minute there! i read it on the internet, it has to be true!
huh. It's what I have always used. Maybe I should switch -
I use pbw for cleaning and either star san (for big stuff) or idophor (for small stuff) for sanitizing.
I've never used one step, but I figure it's got to be sub-optimal in either cleaning ability, or in sanitization, probably sort of meh at both.The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny -
I wash the same way, difference is I use boiled baby food jars, they are glass, store nicely, and perfect for making a starter fromJesus didn't wear pants
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I also split my starters and save half for later brews, then build the starter up again for the brewday.
Haven't done this in a while since I haven't brewed in a long time, but it was always sweet that I had two batches from one vial without the stresses of fermenting a whole batch first, it was good for rapid brew days before a batch could be racked and the yeast washed.Jesus didn't wear pants -
I have a follow up question that has been plexing me. You initially let the trub settle, and decant the liquid and save it, right? The sediment is bad, toss out. But the next time it settles, you want the sediment, not the liquid right?
When I make a starter,I decant off the "beer" and save the sediment which I pitch, is that right? -
Benvarine said:
I have a follow up question that has been plexing me. You initially let the trub settle, and decant the liquid and save it, right? The sediment is bad, toss out. But the next time it settles, you want the sediment, not the liquid right?
When I make a starter,I decant off the "beer" and save the sediment which I pitch, is that right?
correct. the first round of sediment is all the trub and dead yeast that flocculates out fairly quickly. the second round of sediment is mainly healthy yeast.The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake -
Okay, I think that is why some people use beer, the carbonation must help raise the healthy yeast to the top, makes sense a bit. I'm going to try this technique in a few weeks. Great thread.
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jlw said:
I have read that washed yeast is only good for a few life cycles before it changes. I have no idea of this is true?
This is true in a sense. Yeast will change in characteristic over many many generations. I have heard of some breweries using the same yeast population for more than 15 different batches before casting that particular population out.
Other brewers/breweries will use a yeast to the point where it changes in characteristic (mutates), and the brewer prefers the mutation and will harvest this mutated yeast for further use.
On a note more related to the original topic; I have found that keeping the dregs from a bottle (I recap the bottle as soon as I pour the beer), and then using these dregs in a yeast starter, continuing to build up the started until you have a pitch-able volume works wonderfully. I was able to turn some dregs of WLP004 from a Dry Stout into approx 200 billion cells by stepping up starters over a few days.Amigo, lay them raises down. -
Mutation also depends on sanitation and process (yeast health/stress, ferm temp, etc) also, correct?"On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
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C_dubbs said:
Mutation also depends on sanitation and process (yeast health/stress, ferm temp, etc) also, correct?
sanitation, no. process, yes. sloppy sanitation will lead, eventually, to contaminated yeast.The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake -
Evan_B said:
On a note more related to the original topic; I have found that keeping the dregs from a bottle (I recap the bottle as soon as I pour the beer), and then using these dregs in a yeast starter, continuing to build up the started until you have a pitch-able volume works wonderfully. I was able to turn some dregs of WLP004 from a Dry Stout into approx 200 billion cells by stepping up starters over a few days.
i always do this with bells yeast for my alt. it's a great way to get a specific yeast.The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake -
Evan_B said:jlw said:
I have read that washed yeast is only good for a few life cycles before it changes. I have no idea of this is true?
This is true in a sense. Yeast will change in characteristic over many many generations. I have heard of some breweries using the same yeast population for more than 15 different batches before casting that particular population out.
Other brewers/breweries will use a yeast to the point where it changes in characteristic (mutates), and the brewer prefers the mutation and will harvest this mutated yeast for further use.
On a note more related to the original topic; I have found that keeping the dregs from a bottle (I recap the bottle as soon as I pour the beer), and then using these dregs in a yeast starter, continuing to build up the started until you have a pitch-able volume works wonderfully. I was able to turn some dregs of WLP004 from a Dry Stout into approx 200 billion cells by stepping up starters over a few days.
Harvesting yeast from bottles is a sweet way to snag a specialty yeast for later use, and so simple to do!
It's like free yeast...... Aside from the cost of the starter wort, and the time, and the beers bought for harvesting... But hey, it's free yeast for brewing!!!Jesus didn't wear pants -
I posted a list somewhere on here listing loads of brews you can harvest from. If you have a beer you harvested from that isn't on the list, post it up! I will edit it into the list!Jesus didn't wear pants
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If any one can get their hands on the Sierra Nevada Ovila Saison (especially the one from last year), they are bottle conditioned, and are made with a Belgian yeast, from a Belgian Saison brewer, but the name of the brewer or yeast is some kind of "secret." Sierra Nevada is even kept in the dark on the specifics of the yeast. After I read this last year I drove directly to the liquor store, bought a bottle, downed it, and now I have a culture of the SN Ovila Saison yeast in my fridge. Not to toot my own horn, but it does make me feel more BA having a culture of some secret Belgian yeast.Amigo, lay them raises down.
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Evan_B said:
If any one can get their hands on the Sierra Nevada Ovila Saison (especially the one from last year), they are bottle conditioned, and are made with a Belgian yeast, from a Belgian Saison brewer, but the name of the brewer or yeast is some kind of "secret." Sierra Nevada is even kept in the dark on the specifics of the yeast. After I read this last year I drove directly to the liquor store, bought a bottle, downed it, and now I have a culture of the SN Ovila Saison yeast in my fridge. Not to toot my own horn, but it does make me feel more BA having a culture of some secret Belgian yeast.
ha! BA in deed. maybe you could split the culture and we could swap, i have a westvleteren culture that im propping right now, i have enough to share something for a starter....The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny -
Absolutely! I am going to work on some new slants for this particular yeast in the coming weeks, as it was my first ever slant, and I have since honed my slant-skills since. Once I have a nicely propagated slant I would be happy to send one your way!.Amigo, lay them raises down.
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Evan_B said:
Absolutely! I am going to work on some new slants for this particular yeast in the coming weeks, as it was my first ever slant, and I have since honed my slant-skills since. Once I have a nicely propagated slant I would be happy to send one your way!.
fantastic. I'll probably send a partially full white labs style vial, since I've not done slants and I'm not really set up for that at this point. But the yeast should be clean and ready to prop.
The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny -
Lakewood said:Evan_B said:
Absolutely! I am going to work on some new slants for this particular yeast in the coming weeks, as it was my first ever slant, and I have since honed my slant-skills since. Once I have a nicely propagated slant I would be happy to send one your way!.
fantastic. I'll probably send a partially full white labs style vial, since I've not done slants and I'm not really set up for that at this point. But the yeast should be clean and ready to prop.
If it'll grow, eat sugar, and poop alcohol you can send it in an old Tic Tac container for all I care, haha.
If you ever want to try a few slants; apart from most equipment you'll already have around the house, all you would need is a pressure cooker (and you might already have one of those too), and some agar agar flakes/powder, which are found at most health food stores.
I like gettin' all sciency around the house.Amigo, lay them raises down. -
Evan_B said:Lakewood said:Evan_B said:
Absolutely! I am going to work on some new slants for this particular yeast in the coming weeks, as it was my first ever slant, and I have since honed my slant-skills since. Once I have a nicely propagated slant I would be happy to send one your way!.
fantastic. I'll probably send a partially full white labs style vial, since I've not done slants and I'm not really set up for that at this point. But the yeast should be clean and ready to prop.
If it'll grow, eat sugar, and poop alcohol you can send it in an old Tic Tac container for all I care, haha.
If you ever want to try a few slants; apart from most equipment you'll already have around the house, all you would need is a pressure cooker (and you might already have one of those too), and some agar agar flakes/powder, which are found at most health food stores.
I like gettin' all sciency around the house.
if you wouldn't mind putting up a how to thread on preparing the slants, i might try my hand at it.
The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny -
I would be more than happy too. However, I feel it would be beneficial to have some photos to go along with it, and I did not take any with my previous attempts.
As soon as I get my hand on some vials I am going to make some new slants, and I will make sure to photograph the entire process, and I can make a "How to" to go with it.Amigo, lay them raises down. -
Evan_B said:
I would be more than happy too. However, I feel it would be beneficial to have some photos to go along with it, and I did not take any with my previous attempts.
As soon as I get my hand on some vials I am going to make some new slants, and I will make sure to photograph the entire process, and I can make a "How to" to go with it.
sounds great!The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny -
Evan_B said:
I would be more than happy too. However, I feel it would be beneficial to have some photos to go along with it, and I did not take any with my previous attempts.
As soon as I get my hand on some vials I am going to make some new slants, and I will make sure to photograph the entire process, and I can make a "How to" to go with it.
A "how to" on slants would be friggin' sweet."On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants -
C_dubbs said:Evan_B said:
I would be more than happy too. However, I feel it would be beneficial to have some photos to go along with it, and I did not take any with my previous attempts.
As soon as I get my hand on some vials I am going to make some new slants, and I will make sure to photograph the entire process, and I can make a "How to" to go with it.
A "how to" on slants would be friggin' sweet.
This!Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity. -
A guy I used to know did a LOT of yeast culturing ... his kitchen table was always covered with test tubes and flasks and such. A neighbor came over to borrow a cup of sugar .... assumed he was running a meth lab and called the police ... took him a while to explain what was going on when the cops raided his house .....Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
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ceannt said:
A guy I used to know did a LOT of yeast culturing ... his kitchen table was always covered with test tubes and flasks and such. A neighbor came over to borrow a cup of sugar .... assumed he was running a meth lab and called the police ... took him a while to explain what was going on when the cops raided his house .....
So he lends the guy a cup of sugar, and he still has the nerve to call the cops?! Now that's messed up!
Amigo, lay them raises down. -
Evan_B said:ceannt said:
A guy I used to know did a LOT of yeast culturing ... his kitchen table was always covered with test tubes and flasks and such. A neighbor came over to borrow a cup of sugar .... assumed he was running a meth lab and called the police ... took him a while to explain what was going on when the cops raided his house .....
So he lends the guy a cup of sugar, and he still has the nerve to call the cops?! Now that's messed up!
Very messed up ....Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity. -
Or should I say "methed up"....?Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
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maybe he was furious that the "sugar" he asked for was actual sugar. he was looking for something else...
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frydogbrews said:
maybe he was furious that the "sugar" he asked for was actual sugar. he was looking for something else...
Yea, I'd like to borrow a bag of "hops!" And they'd better be "hops" or I'm calling the cops beyouch. -
So I've washed a few batches of yeast. The last two I did last night. I was washing 1056 and a Belgian strain. I added water, shook up, waited 15, no separation. I waited another 30, about 2mm. I was tired and went to bed. Got up in the morning, all liquid on top, all had settled. So, shook again and waited about 45 min. Nothing. So, fed up just decanted about half into sterile containers. Put in fridge. Got home today, brown liquid (beer), on top. Now what. Do I decant the beer and restore again or just leave it. Last times, did not have a problem, ended up with all yeast and no liquid really.
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if it's not settling out reasonably well i would be a little concerned by the sample purity.The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
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Lakewood said:
if it's not settling out reasonably well i would be a little concerned by the sample purity.
This.
My rule on washing yeast: if there is ANY concern about possible contamination it goes right down the drain.
"On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants -
I'm not concerned about contamination. I just pulled them from two brews and those don't have any sign of contamination. They have good color, no other obvious signs of infection. I guess it is taking somewhere between 45 minutes and 8 hours to separate properly and now I wonder if I should pour off the liquid portion or not. If I do, I'll still use caution when pitching again, if there are signs of darkening or other weird things, I'll toss.
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Benvarine said:
I'm not concerned about contamination. I just pulled them from two brews and those don't have any sign of contamination. They have good color, no other obvious signs of infection. I guess it is taking somewhere between 45 minutes and 8 hours to separate properly and now I wonder if I should pour off the liquid portion or not. If I do, I'll still use caution when pitching again, if there are signs of darkening or other weird things, I'll toss.
Oh right ok. I'm sure it's fine then. Pour off before use or long term storage (over a month?) Otherwise it sounds fine.
"On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants -
I've never been able to get yeast to settle out in 15 minutes like some of these threads suggest. It's at least an hour for me. I usually just cold crash whatever sample I got then decant and make a starter when I'm going to use it again."On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
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C_dubbs said:
I've never been able to get yeast to settle out in 15 minutes like some of these threads suggest. It's at least an hour for me. I usually just cold crash whatever sample I got then decant and make a starter when I'm going to use it again.
it depends on what's in the trub. sometimes i can get the junk to settle and i can pour off the suspended yeast in 15 minutes, sometimes it takes all night to settle and i have a layer of yeast sitting on top of the layer of trub/junk.The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake -
I've never had a problem with dead yeast or other junk. I "wash" it with boiled water, but that just get the water soluble junk out, not the stuff that sinks like dead yeast. I've done at least 5 generations of WLP002 and all went well. I just didn't brew for too long in there which broke the chain. I need to get some culture going. I've got agar, the back seat of my car it filled with petri dishes, I've got some glycerin and test tubes, I just need some new gaskets for my pressure cooker."I don't have TP, but I do have ammo."
-Some guy in Ohio
yeast washing!
