Wit vs Hefe Question
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,687
    This discussion was created from comments split from: Your Desert Island Beers.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,687

    C_dubbs said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_dubbs said:

    The website says Blue Moon was inspired by "Belgian style Wits". i stand corrected.



    yeah... inspired....

    Maybe when it was first brewed.


    i've had it both before and after the budwiener corp bought it. there is a significant change in the product.

    it was never a good wit, but now it tastes like bud light with a little wheat in the grist.

    Yeah it's better than that. I'm honestly still not sure what a wit is supposed to be compared to a hefe.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,687
    Ok. I need some help. I like Blue Moon. Apparently it was originally inspired by Belgian Wits. I thought it was "supposed" to be a hefe. I thought wits were generally spicy where hefes were more fruity and smooth. What style am I actually talking about?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,687
    What I WANT is a wheaty, fruity beer with just a hint of spice. Not too thick or bready, but I do want a little in there. And lots of citrusy goodness. Like Blue Moon but not quite as thin.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,708
    C_dubbs said:

    What I WANT is a wheaty, fruity beer with just a hint of spice. Not too thick or bready, but I do want a little in there. And lots of citrusy goodness. Like Blue Moon but not quite as thin.



    http://homebrewforums.net/discussion/80#Item_13

    ThymC_B
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,687

    C_dubbs said:

    What I WANT is a wheaty, fruity beer with just a hint of spice. Not too thick or bready, but I do want a little in there. And lots of citrusy goodness. Like Blue Moon but not quite as thin.



    http://homebrewforums.net/discussion/80#Item_13

    Ha. Ok. I should have remembered that.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    C_dubbs said:

    What I WANT is a wheaty, fruity beer with just a hint of spice. Not too thick or bready, but I do want a little in there. And lots of citrusy goodness. Like Blue Moon but not quite as thin.



    that sounds like a belgian wit.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    Lakewood said:

    C_dubbs said:

    What I WANT is a wheaty, fruity beer with just a hint of spice. Not too thick or bready, but I do want a little in there. And lots of citrusy goodness. Like Blue Moon but not quite as thin.



    that sounds like a belgian wit.


    oh and looky down there at the related discussions thingy!!
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,708
    hefe is a delicious beer style, characterized by the yeast profile. there are fruity esters, commonly described as bubblegum and banana, but don't really taste like either in my opinion. these are almost always offset by phenols that are described as clove like.

    whereas wit is more dominate in wheat malt character and is often flavored with adjuncts like orange peel and coriander. there is a bit more pepper flavor to the phenols that a wit yeast puts out as well. it's gentle, but decidedly different from the phenols that you get from a 'hefe' yeast.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063

    hefe is a delicious beer style, characterized by the yeast profile. there are fruity esters, commonly described as bubblegum and banana, but don't really taste like either in my opinion. these are almost always offset by phenols that are described as clove like.

    whereas wit is more dominate in wheat malt character and is often flavored with adjuncts like orange peel and coriander. there is a bit more pepper flavor to the phenols that a wit yeast puts out as well. it's gentle, but decidedly different from the phenols that you get from a 'hefe' yeast.



    yes.

    and many wit examples will also have a slightly sour tang to them. Its sort of a sour dough flavor. The next time i brew snow storm i plan on adjust the grain bill a bit to get some acidulated malt in there.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,687

    hefe is a delicious beer style, characterized by the yeast profile. there are fruity esters, commonly described as bubblegum and banana, but don't really taste like either in my opinion. these are almost always offset by phenols that are described as clove like.

    whereas wit is more dominate in wheat malt character and is often flavored with adjuncts like orange peel and coriander. there is a bit more pepper flavor to the phenols that a wit yeast puts out as well. it's gentle, but decidedly different from the phenols that you get from a 'hefe' yeast.


    That's exactly the description I was looking for.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,708
    Lakewood said:

    hefe is a delicious beer style, characterized by the yeast profile. there are fruity esters, commonly described as bubblegum and banana, but don't really taste like either in my opinion. these are almost always offset by phenols that are described as clove like.

    whereas wit is more dominate in wheat malt character and is often flavored with adjuncts like orange peel and coriander. there is a bit more pepper flavor to the phenols that a wit yeast puts out as well. it's gentle, but decidedly different from the phenols that you get from a 'hefe' yeast.



    yes.

    and many wit examples will also have a slightly sour tang to them. Its sort of a sour dough flavor. The next time i brew snow storm i plan on adjust the grain bill a bit to get some acidulated malt in there.


    soured wits are delicious. i plan on doing one with my soured wort.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063

    Lakewood said:

    hefe is a delicious beer style, characterized by the yeast profile. there are fruity esters, commonly described as bubblegum and banana, but don't really taste like either in my opinion. these are almost always offset by phenols that are described as clove like.

    whereas wit is more dominate in wheat malt character and is often flavored with adjuncts like orange peel and coriander. there is a bit more pepper flavor to the phenols that a wit yeast puts out as well. it's gentle, but decidedly different from the phenols that you get from a 'hefe' yeast.



    yes.

    and many wit examples will also have a slightly sour tang to them. Its sort of a sour dough flavor. The next time i brew snow storm i plan on adjust the grain bill a bit to get some acidulated malt in there.


    soured wits are delicious. i plan on doing one with my soured wort.


    i look forward to hearing how that turns out. i'm going to go for the acidulated malt, it seems easier and something i can do any time.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Another beer style you could consider is a Saison.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,687
    jlw said:

    Another beer style you could consider is a Saison.



    Yes maybe. I really know nothing about this style. I'm not even sure how to pronounce it.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,708
    C_dubbs said:

    jlw said:

    Another beer style you could consider is a Saison.



    Yes maybe. I really know nothing about this style. I'm not even sure how to pronounce it.


    soy-soon.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454

    C_dubbs said:

    jlw said:

    Another beer style you could consider is a Saison.



    Yes maybe. I really know nothing about this style. I'm not even sure how to pronounce it.


    soy-soon.


    lol
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Next time you are at a nice beer bar you should order a soy-soon
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,708
    jlw said:

    Next time you are at a nice beer bar you should order a soy-soon



    and follow it up with a nice west coast eeepah.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    you guys are jerks.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    Saison (French, "season," French pronunciation: ​[sɛ.zɔ̃])

    pretty much Seh-zon
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Lakewood said:

    you guys are jerks.



    ayup
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    What would be the difference in recipe between heffeweizen and Belgian wit? How about brew one batch, split it in two and use Belgian yeast and a heffeweizen yeast, see how they differ. Is it all the yeast in this case? Comments?
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Benvarine said:

    What would be the difference in recipe between heffeweizen and Belgian wit? How about brew one batch, split it in two and use Belgian yeast and a heffeweizen yeast, see how they differ. Is it all the yeast in this case? Comments?



    I haven't brewed a wit before but I think FZ nailed it. Hefe's are Yeast forward beers and derive much or most of their flavor from the yeast used. If a wit is malt driven then I would suppose the flavor is coming from the grain.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,687
    Lakewood said:

    you guys are jerks.



    Yes.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,687
    Lakewood said:

    Saison (French, "season," French pronunciation: ​[sɛ.zɔ̃])

    pretty much Seh-zon


    That's about what I thought.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    C_dubbs said:

    Lakewood said:

    Saison (French, "season," French pronunciation: ​[sɛ.zɔ̃])

    pretty much Seh-zon


    That's about what I thought.


    I usually pronounce it sigh-zon because you sound less like a pretentious twat that way.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,063
    jlw said:

    Benvarine said:

    What would be the difference in recipe between heffeweizen and Belgian wit? How about brew one batch, split it in two and use Belgian yeast and a heffeweizen yeast, see how they differ. Is it all the yeast in this case? Comments?



    I haven't brewed a wit before but I think FZ nailed it. Hefe's are Yeast forward beers and derive much or most of their flavor from the yeast used. If a wit is malt driven then I would suppose the flavor is coming from the grain.


    You are typically going to spice a wit also. Orange peel and corriander are very common in witbier during the boil. The flavors pair well with the bready and/or sourness of a wit.

    You could potentially come up with a mash and boil schedule that could be split and pitched with both a wit and a hefe yeast, but I believe there would be enough compronise that you would end up with two meh beers that each just missed the style.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    Lakewood said:

    jlw said:

    Benvarine said:

    What would be the difference in recipe between heffeweizen and Belgian wit? How about brew one batch, split it in two and use Belgian yeast and a heffeweizen yeast, see how they differ. Is it all the yeast in this case? Comments?



    I haven't brewed a wit before but I think FZ nailed it. Hefe's are Yeast forward beers and derive much or most of their flavor from the yeast used. If a wit is malt driven then I would suppose the flavor is coming from the grain.


    You are typically going to spice a wit also. Orange peel and corriander are very common in witbier during the boil. The flavors pair well with the bready and/or sourness of a wit.

    You could potentially come up with a mash and boil schedule that could be split and pitched with both a wit and a hefe yeast, but I believe there would be enough compronise that you would end up with two meh beers that each just missed the style.


    Perfect, like most of my beers.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Here is my hefe recipe. The falvor profile changes depending on the yeast used.

    Recipe: Ewalds Weissbier
    Brewer:
    Asst Brewer:
    Style: Weizen/Weissbier
    TYPE: All Grain
    Taste: (35.0)

    Recipe Specifications
    --------------------------
    Boil Size: 6.93 gal
    Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
    Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
    Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
    Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
    Estimated Color: 6.8 SRM
    Estimated IBU: 12.0 IBUs
    Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
    Est Mash Efficiency: 81.8 %
    Boil Time: 60 Minutes

    Ingredients:
    ------------
    Amt Name Type # %/IBU
    8.0 oz Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 1 4.8 %
    5 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 47.6 %
    5 lbs Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 47.6 %
    0.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 8.0 IBUs
    0.50 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil Hop 5 4.0 IBUs
    1.0 pkg Hefeweizen Ale (White Labs #WLP300) [35. Yeast 6 -


    Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
    Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 8.0 oz
    ----------------------------
    Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
    Mash In Add 13.13 qt of water at 164.8 F 153.0 F 60 min

    Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (1.57gal, 3.59gal) of 168.0 F water

    WLP 300 will give banana esters. The fermentation temp will determine how much. Higher ferm temp say around 72* will give you a lot and if you want to mute the banana you ferment lower say around 67*. I personally ferment it around 67*

    WLP 351 will give you clove and again more or less depending on fermentation temps.

    I like both of these. I think I lean more toward the clove as personal preference.

    I wonder what mixing the yeasts would do?
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,687
    jlw said:

    Here is my hefe recipe. The falvor profile changes depending on the yeast used.

    Recipe: Ewalds Weissbier
    Brewer:
    Asst Brewer:
    Style: Weizen/Weissbier
    TYPE: All Grain
    Taste: (35.0)

    Recipe Specifications
    --------------------------
    Boil Size: 6.93 gal
    Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
    Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
    Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
    Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
    Estimated Color: 6.8 SRM
    Estimated IBU: 12.0 IBUs
    Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
    Est Mash Efficiency: 81.8 %
    Boil Time: 60 Minutes

    Ingredients:
    ------------
    Amt Name Type # %/IBU
    8.0 oz Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 1 4.8 %
    5 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 47.6 %
    5 lbs Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 47.6 %
    0.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 8.0 IBUs
    0.50 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil Hop 5 4.0 IBUs
    1.0 pkg Hefeweizen Ale (White Labs #WLP300) [35. Yeast 6 -


    Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
    Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 8.0 oz
    ----------------------------
    Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
    Mash In Add 13.13 qt of water at 164.8 F 153.0 F 60 min

    Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (1.57gal, 3.59gal) of 168.0 F water

    WLP 300 will give banana esters. The fermentation temp will determine how much. Higher ferm temp say around 72* will give you a lot and if you want to mute the banana you ferment lower say around 67*. I personally ferment it around 67*

    WLP 351 will give you clove and again more or less depending on fermentation temps.

    I like both of these. I think I lean more toward the clove as personal preference.

    I wonder what mixing the yeasts would do?



    I might like a 10 gallon batch split between those two yeasts.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants