Little things I have learned along the road to making better beer.
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,648
    Interesting. I've never made a extract beer (unless you count starters I've drank), but it's on my things I should do list.
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  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    I get folks just starting out to do extract first ... just to get their feet wet ... some have still not gone all grain
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    I went to AG for the very reason ceannt went to AG. All about the control.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,777
    jlw said:

    I went to AG for the very reason ceannt went to AG. All about the control.



    and the cost. extract is pricey!
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    FromZwolle said:

    jlw said:

    I went to AG for the very reason ceannt went to AG. All about the control.



    and the cost. extract is pricey!


    There is that too
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    “Do the research”:

    I mentioned this in passing earlier… but after my lengthy input in the “Brown Porter help” thread, I thought I would clarify a bit…..

    I find it very helpful, if not imperative, to understand as much as I can about a beer style I am planning to brew…. And not just what grains, hops and yeast…..
    When I am getting ready to brew a new style, first I look at where the beer was originally made….. what kind of water do they have? Did they even use the local water, or was this beer made from captured rain water? It was fairly common practice in the old days to use rainwater. I read a very interesting (if painful to read) article published in the early 1700’s about the 4 different kinds of brewing water available in England…. “Spring water”, “rain water”, “pond water” and “river water”… and the differences they had on beer. They didn’t understand stuff like ph back then, but had a surprisingly good grasp of the effects of water on beer…. For example: the spring water (high in carbonates) was really good to make things like a Porter with a lot of roasted grains…. But to make a highly hopped lighter beer the rainwater was much better, and made the hop profile much less harsh. I doubt that the “humors” had much to do with it, but the old boy had it down rather well.
    Look into how the beer evolved, and why…. Sometimes the earlier versions are actually better (sometimes they sucked too), and could have changed because of events outside of brewing entirely….. perhaps a war cut off a trade route, or some new pin-headed law prohibited an ingredient or process. Possibly some “new” ingredient was cheaper, more readily available, or was just less work. Who was the beer primarily brewed for? Was it made for snooty rich folks, or for the sweaty poor masses? Was this a beer made for the locals only? Or brewed for export? Was this beer made by a commercial brewery? or something that would have been made at individual pubs, or even by land owners? Is it an “everyday” beer? or something brewed for special occasions?? You can gain a lot of insight about a beer from answering these questions, and that can have a positive impact on how you brew.

    Thym
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Continued:

    Look into the process used to brew the beer, and why this practice was used. You may not be able to reproduce the process exactly, but you can sure mimic the effects that the original process would have had on the finished beer. A good example of this is the decoction mash used in many German beers…. They didn’t have thermometers…. And a decoction mash is an ideal way to control temperature… the malt profile it develops had nothing to do with why they brewed this way…. but sure is a wonderful side effect. They had the same problem in England, but instead of a decoction, they added a known quantity of boiling water to a known quantity of water straight from a spring or a rain barrel…. and did a single infusion mash. I always wondered why most Belgian beers (in particular the Trappist ones) did not employ a decoction mash…. Until I “did the research”…. And found out that Belgian brewing was highly influenced by Scottish brewers (way back in the Middle Ages)…. not so much by the Germans…. Interesting stuff. It was very common practice in England to do Parti guile brewing (why the Brown Porter was originally called “entire guile”)…. They would use the first runnings to make a strong ale, the second runnings to make a “normal” session strength ale, and the third runnings to make “small beer” (the Bud Light of the day) so it is not a bad idea to attempt to mimic the results of this and adapt your brewing practices to account for the effects. One really cool old practice for very strong ales, like Barleywine, was to take the first runnings and enough of the second to equal in total the volume used for the strike water…. Heat it up to strike water temperature, and use it to dough in a fresh batch of grain…. You can get a crazy high gravity without the kettle caramelazation from a very, very (did I say very?) long boil to get to the desired gravity. Made often with only Pale malt, these beers were (are) simply phenomenal… and would fall into the “snooty rich people” category…. (of course the remaining second and the third runnings went into smaller beers to give to the hired help, they didn’t waste anything). Surprisingly, most of the old arcane methods are not that difficult to mimic by the homebrewer with minimal equipment, it just takes some creativity, serious thought, and the guts to experiment.

    I know all this seems like an awful lot of effort, but it can be a lot of fun, makes a huge difference in developing recipes, and greatly increases your appreciation for a beer when you sit down to pour one.....


    Thym
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,648
    I do enjoy research. What have you found to be good resources for such things?

    I did the double mash thing once, though I "invented" it myself (beer is one of those things where it's all been done by someone at some time... why the research thing is such a productive approach). I did a mash with about 40% of the total grain and split it like a parti-gyle, then mashed the remaining grain with the first running of the first, first sparge with the second ext. Worked amazingly well, though due to other problems the sparge took 3 days. I made it into two beers the bigger of which was really great (I don't remember the smaller one... I think I drank it rather green)
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  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Old brewing texts are the best..... if you can find them.... the internet is a wonderful thing... if you look hard enough you can find most anything..... years ago my local library had a very old book on cooking, it had a whole chapter on brewing...

    Cool about your "re-invention".... yep, there is very little we can do that is truly "new".... with over 9000 years of brewing history, there is a pretty good chance that someone somewhere "been there, done that"......


    Thym
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,648
    I recently read some texts about early American home brewing and can't get past the lack of carbonation. I almost feel it's wrong to carb a beer based on a 200+ year old recipe.
    On the other hand, 1lb of "hops" can mean a lot of things... kind, wet or dry weight, how dry. A qt of yeast... what the heck strain is that? Baking yeast? I guess I could research that further to get some answers, but then again Americans may have just been making hooch at the time. Sam Adams (my great^x uncle) was brewing something very crude (and not a lager, that was a German thing that only became popular in the US in the 1850's give or take 10 years).

    okay that turned into a pointless old man rant. I guess I need to find some more books on beer. I've read what little I could find at the better of the local libraries, but there are likely gems to be found at others... ah, next winter I'll have time for that... if I still haven't found my fly tying vice...
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  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    A lot of the earlier American brews were probably pretty nasty....... why most Americans back then drank Cider..... or ran it through a still.....
    You can carb a beer fairly effectively by just plugging up the bung at the right time... don't even need to add more fermentables..... all a matter of timing.
    Most texts have some really vauge stuff in regards to recipes.... and measurments can get very strange.... hops would be dry... variety is harder... depending on where they were, and when... at that time period, would be either an English cultivar, or a cross with native strains.... more or less like a Cluster.
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Clones?:
    I don’t brew clones…. Never had the desire too. If I wanted something, I would just go out and buy it. When I drink a commercial beer, I have a difficult time enjoying for what it is…. I find myself looking for ways to improve it. If I find a beer that I like, instead of trying to clone it, I will brew the style focusing on the characteristics that I liked in the commercial beer, and cutting back on anything that I didn’t. I will also add anything that I think would improve on it.
    I have known guys that are almost obsessed with cloning. And consider a batch a failure if it isn’t right on the money identical. One such person really amused me once by expressing absolute failure over a clone attempt that turned out to be far better than the beer he was cloning……. How, I repeat how, is brewing a better beer…… a failure????
    I know that clones can be viewed as a “test” of a brewers prowess….. but seriously…. So is just brewing a really good beer that nobody else has ever made. I think that imagination and creativity, and the skill to apply and execute it are a far greater test.

    One of the best compliments I have ever received came from a buddy of mine. He gave me a call after trying a new beer in a bar that has a very extensive beer list…. He raved about how good the beer was. Then he said “There was something about it, not sure what, but it just tasted like something that you would brew.”
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    ceannt said:

    Clones?:
    I don’t brew clones…. Never had the desire too. If I wanted something, I would just go out and buy it. When I drink a commercial beer, I have a difficult time enjoying for what it is…. I find myself looking for ways to improve it. If I find a beer that I like, instead of trying to clone it, I will brew the style focusing on the characteristics that I liked in the commercial beer, and cutting back on anything that I didn’t. I will also add anything that I think would improve on it.
    I have known guys that are almost obsessed with cloning. And consider a batch a failure if it isn’t right on the money identical. One such person really amused me once by expressing absolute failure over a clone attempt that turned out to be far better than the beer he was cloning……. How, I repeat how, is brewing a better beer…… a failure????
    I know that clones can be viewed as a “test” of a brewers prowess….. but seriously…. So is just brewing a really good beer that nobody else has ever made. I think that imagination and creativity, and the skill to apply and execute it are a far greater test.

    One of the best compliments I have ever received came from a buddy of mine. He gave me a call after trying a new beer in a bar that has a very extensive beer list…. He raved about how good the beer was. Then he said “There was something about it, not sure what, but it just tasted like something that you would brew.”



    When I first started brewing I was all about the clones. As I discovered more about brewing the more I wanted to make my own recipes. Now I have no desire to clone anymore. Sometimes when I am thinking about a new beer I am devising I may identify a commercial version that I like the color on or the body or the hop profile and use that as my basis for a new beer. Not with the intent of cloning but rather the idea.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    That's the way to do it......
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,962
    I started wanting to clone also. But it was more about not knowing what I liked. I would find a good commercial beer and want to make that because it was yummy. Now that I know I can make good beer that can stand on its own, I could care less about cloning. And I love being able to toss some 'tude at someone when they ask if I can make something like fill-in-the-blank commercial beer.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,648
    When I first started brewing I wanted to make beer and do it on the cheap.
    Some how I attained that with home malted hulled barley and a bic pen with lines drawn on it as a hydrometer. It wasn't good, but it was beer, and it didn't cost much. Then I realized real malt wasn't that expensive, my next batch was much much better.
    I've never really though about doing a knock off... urr, um, I mean clone. I do look up clone recipes of beers I like in hopes of getting some insight, but most people posting clones seem to not know what they are doing.
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  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Dr_Jerryrigger said:

    ....... but most people posting clones seem to not know what they are doing.



    I have also noticed that......
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    Get off my lawn!
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    Good tips and observations though!
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    azscoob said:

    Get off my lawn!



    Hah ... just writing prophanities with fertilizer .....
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Just thought of this ..... the HVAC guys are soldering out in the hall........

    There is something in copper that yeast needs .... helps late in the fermentation process during the "clean up" stage.
    If you use an immersion chiller, you are good to go. But if not .....
    Back when I did the ice bath white trash chill method I used to toss a 3/4 copper elbow in my boil pot.....
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,648
    Huh, I think I'll toss in my two cents... into my carboy that is.
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  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Dr_Jerryrigger said:

    Huh, I think I'll toss in my two cents... into my carboy that is.



    Hah..... cept pennies ain't really copper .... and you need to boil ..... still good for a laugh ..
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,962
    I've read this somewhere before... But forgot about it until just now. What happens if you don't have any copper? I use a copper IC now, but the first couple batches were ice bath and no copper in the pot.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    SeaBee said:

    I've read this somewhere before... But forgot about it until just now. What happens if you don't have any copper? I use a copper IC now, but the first couple batches were ice bath and no copper in the pot.



    Nothing real bad.... and no difference if the beer is racked to secondary after a week .... or something silly like that. But gives the yeast nutrients late in the game .... and helps minimize the potential of off flavors from the yeast.
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
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