Pelley's Dream: My U.K. / Maine Style Saison (!?)
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    I just put in my order for my "Pelley's Dream" - a Saison inspired by my mother's side and a recent trip to Maine to see where my Grandfather and his brothers grew up. I've learned a little about that part of my ancestry - English, and Scotch-Irish but what really got me excited was learning that they used to brew a light, "kinda' tart" ale at their grandparents farmhouse for decades, using hops from a nearby farm. Just about every farm around the area, and Maine in general, feature Cascade hops along with Centennial. The name "Pelley's Dream" is from a painting with the same name on the canvas, painted for them in the early 1980s - my grandfather had that on the wall behind his favorite chair, featuring a lighthouse during a storm on a rocky shore - so, Maine is covered and I will feature that picture on my label. I could go my usual Castle Pils for the base but I just couldn't help but see this as a great chance to make something unique and experiment. I went total U.K. on the grain bill as you see below. Let me know what you think - I'm expecting bready, peppery, slight citrus - probably more from the hops. What's the best way to get the tart going on here?

    Pelley's Dream: A Cross-Atlantic Farmhouse Ale
    OG: 1.054 / FG: 1.012
    ABV: 5.55% / IBU: 28.45 / SRM: 6.25
    3724 Belgian Saison (ramp from 75 to 80 in 2 days), with Danstar Belle Saison for cleanup once it stalls, raise to 85F - don't know what to expect, maybe the Belle to take over? But, why the heck not! I could expect 1.000 with a 7% ABV - oh well :)

    Fermentables
    Ashburn Mild - 5lb - 40.4%
    Optic - 2lb - 16.1%
    Golden Promise - 1.5lb - 12.1%
    Halcyon - 1.25lb - 10.1%
    Marris Otter - 1lb - 8.1%
    Torrified Wheat - .75lb - 6.1%
    Flaked Oats - .65lb - 5.2%
    Blonde Candi Sugar - .24lbs - 1.9%

    Mash
    1. 125F / 25 min - 12 qts
    2. 147F / 75 min - 12 qts
    3. 170F Fly Sparge - 6 qts, followed by batch sparge

    Boil
    1 oz Cascade (5.75 aa) - 40 min / 19.12 IBUs
    1 oz Ginger Paste - 17 min - Grandfather LOVED ginger - quirky, but, I think that will go well with this brew
    1 oz Centennial (10.5 aa) - 6 min / 9.33 IBUs

  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    This looks really good. I like the idea of the ginger. The cool thing about a saison is you can take it in so many directions.

    My preferred saison yeast is Wyeast 3711 doesn't stall and ferments all the way down to 1.000 range.
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    jlw said:

    This looks really good. I like the idea of the ginger. The cool thing about a saison is you can take it in so many directions.

    My preferred saison yeast is Wyeast 3711 doesn't stall and ferments all the way down to 1.000 range.



    That's my preferred as well. 3711 is just a nice beast to have around - the only thing that comes closest to it as being a sure thing, in my short experience anyways, is 3787. I've never used Belle but have heard it is pretty dang hungry and maybe slightly peppery. In your experience, is the temperature ramping the best way to bring out the tart flavors?
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    CZs said:

    jlw said:

    This looks really good. I like the idea of the ginger. The cool thing about a saison is you can take it in so many directions.

    My preferred saison yeast is Wyeast 3711 doesn't stall and ferments all the way down to 1.000 range.



    That's my preferred as well. 3711 is just a nice beast to have around - the only thing that comes closest to it as being a sure thing, in my short experience anyways, is 3787. I've never used Belle but have heard it is pretty dang hungry and maybe slightly peppery. In your experience, is the temperature ramping the best way to bring out the tart flavors?


    Yes, i think so. Last year I tried maintaining a lower temp and it just didn't get as funky as previous saison's. So this year I'm back to ramp and fermenting really hot.

    Actually, i think ideal way to ferment is to let it just take off and ferment however hot it wanted to go. This year though, it's been super cool and the only way I could get warm temps was with my ferm wrap, blanket and temp controller.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    I really like your concept on this

    I would stay away from the Ginger paste though ...... use fresh ... grate about a teaspoon for a 5 gallon batch ... if you have a Tai market near you .. buy it there ... the stuff in grocery stores is typically pretty old
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Oh... and put it in with about ten minutes left in the boil .... don't use a bag ... use a micrograter and just toss it in
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Considering what you are shooting for in the end product ... you might have been better off just using Optic malt ....
    but I can't wait to hear how this turns out
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,656
    ceannt said:

    I really like your concept on this

    I would stay away from the Ginger paste though ...... use fresh ... grate about a teaspoon for a 5 gallon batch ... if you have a Tai market near you .. buy it there ... the stuff in grocery stores is typically pretty old



    i'd agree, if i didn't hate ginger with a passion.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    Fresh ginger is where it's at, and I agree on the Asian market for the source.

    I have a beer that is a blueberry summer ale, or a ginger ale... Depending if I use berries or fresh ginger, the addition of the ginger early in the boil adds bite without much flavor or aroma, late in the boil adds great flavor and aroma. It took a few batches to balance out the ginger bite vs aroma/flavor.
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    ceannt, scoob - thanks for your inputs. I went inclusive with the UK malts because I'm so excited to smell and taste all of them - based on how I'm moving forward with re-brewing others, I'm sure I'm going to boil it down to the one or two I really like for the next batch of the same stuff. What would make Optic your choice among all of them?

    I'm assuming based off of my research that I'll get a mixed grain bill that is ligthly kilned, bready, sweet, with a little honey mixed in there and of course the flaked oat silkyness that I pretty much want for every single brew now lol.

    I can definitely get some fresh ginger and have used it multiple times in cooking - I got very found of this ginger paste I found because it came across a little sweeter to me. I've read everything between flame out and 30 minutes for ginger. I'm always funny about my additional ingredients - I use odd minute times from 30 minutes down just because I can lol. I like having a little ginger bite along with the flavor/aroma - which is why I did 15 min+. If you think I'm safer going 10 min or less while still getting a little crisp ginger bite than I'm all for reducing the boil time on that
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    You can add a little at 30 minutes to get some bite .... and the rest late for flavor. The paste will of course be more "processed " and will not be as good ... might also have other ingredients that you really don't want in beer ....
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    The Optic malt is somewhat lighter and crisper than most English pale malts ... but has great flavor ... it also doughs in real easy ... don't clump up like a lot of em do
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    The one I want to try is Tipple ....
    its a spring barley like golden promise
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    good point, two 1/2 oz additions of fresh Ginger - one at 30 and one at 10 sounds pretty good to me
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    @CZs have you brewed this yet??? If not when will you be?
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    Hey there - things have been crazy busy with my business (a great thing) - I will update on the Ocean Front Grisette later on today (5/22) and had to push the "Pelley's Dream" brew day until most likely this Friday, when I am finally likely to have a day off!
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,656
    CZs said:

    Hey there - things have been crazy busy with my business (a great thing) - I will update on the Ocean Front Grisette later on today (5/22) and had to push the "Pelley's Dream" brew day until most likely this Friday, when I am finally likely to have a day off!



    brewcast it!

    or at least get some pictures. there are some poor unfortunate souls here that are on a leap year brewing schedule. they need to be reminded what brewing looks like.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,617

    CZs said:

    Hey there - things have been crazy busy with my business (a great thing) - I will update on the Ocean Front Grisette later on today (5/22) and had to push the "Pelley's Dream" brew day until most likely this Friday, when I am finally likely to have a day off!



    brewcast it!

    or at least get some pictures. there are some poor unfortunate souls here that are on a leap year brewing schedule. they need to be reminded what brewing looks like.


    :( i live through you all.

    C_B
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    Re-sanitizing the mash tun, brew pot, and utensils as we speak. Grating the fresh ginger, and then we'll be on our marry way to brewing this puppy. I'll come back with updates later on this afternoon.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    CZs said:

    Re-sanitizing the mash tun, brew pot, and utensils as we speak. Grating the fresh ginger, and then we'll be on our marry way to brewing this puppy. I'll come back with updates later on this afternoon.



    Yay! Brewday!
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    Everything looking great so far. I'll update again later on. Grating the ginger, mixing the grain bill, lettin the wort flow for batch sparging. Oh yea, enjoying my All Hallows' Evening Saison at the same time (at about 10:30 a.m. lol). Just FYI - after about a half-dozen brews, those cheap Walmart pitchers don't cut it for extremely hot wort. Had to get another pot out until I could find another pitcher. It was like Alien blood melting through and one sticky mess!
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  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    We're all done! A few thoughts:
    - the mash smelled like sour dough bread and sweetness/honey
    - Everything went well with the boil - I ended up doing a half-ounce of fresh ginger at 12 min - its def noticeable in the hydro sample but is on the sweeter side - so far smells and tastes like ginger and honey with some grass, pine and slight citrus from the hops - just a bread smell, no bready taste
    - the wort looks slightly darker than I anticipated but hey whats color mean anyways? I was 4 points over on my OG - 1.058.
    - I'm have to buy more equipment meaning a couple more carboys and need to get a brew pot with a spigot - I hate to rack when I can gently let it slide down the side of the vessel plus its less to clean! I've been so busy I didn't really anticipate my equipment stock and que this time around - oh well! I took another sip of my brew and just went with it!

    I will update smell and tasting notes after a couple weeks. Interested to see the 3724 go to work on this for the next week-two weeks and will give it a long time to get it down to the stalling point (if it indeed happens), wait a little while longer, and then pitch the Danstar Belle Saison
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  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,656
    that's a vigorous boil!
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,656
    and are you racking to carboy in your bedroom? i'll just assume you're not married, or ^:)^
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,617

    and are you racking to carboy in your bedroom? i'll just assume you're not married, or ^:)^



    seriously...... i was thinking EXACTLY the same thing.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    Nope - I'm married. I'm in the middle of building a new house and my wife and I are temporarily moved in with my oldest sibling. It's a massive finished basement area and that is an old blanket they put over a foosball table so we could stack boxes and sort while we're here.

    My wife is actually thrilled I'm not doing this in our previous kitchen / basement and the new place will have brew/ferm room in my man-cave / put everything away when people visit area lol. My wife loves my hobby and has let me spread out just about anywhere - but, there really isn't enough room with all of her freaking clothes and shoes but oh yes, I've thought about it. My wife was looking through Midwest catalog and actually got excited to see the tier system - "Anything to save space and organize!" I told her not to say that because I will purposefully drive her nuts so I can keep upgrading my process!

    By the way - look at my little buddy at 6 a.m.
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  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228

    that's a vigorous boil!



    yup - funny enough I thought I was doing great on an old fashioned stove top with the thick coils - this was on an electric surface burner that has a really great setting for high on larger pots! I told the wife my new area has to have the exact same stove
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    CZs said:

    Nope - I'm married. I'm in the middle of building a new house and my wife and I are temporarily moved in with my oldest sibling. It's a massive finished basement area and that is an old blanket they put over a foosball table so we could stack boxes and sort while we're here.

    My wife is actually thrilled I'm not doing this in our previous kitchen / basement and the new place will have brew/ferm room in my man-cave / put everything away when people visit area lol. My wife loves my hobby and has let me spread out just about anywhere - but, there really isn't enough room with all of her freaking clothes and shoes but oh yes, I've thought about it. My wife was looking through Midwest catalog and actually got excited to see the tier system - "Anything to save space and organize!" I told her not to say that because I will purposefully drive her nuts so I can keep upgrading my process!

    By the way - look at my little buddy at 6 a.m.



    Uh .... oops ...
    that had to make the wife happy ....
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    yea - as I posted above, didn't have the equipment I wanted - the other carboys are tied up - I really didn't like to have to use this one and honestly just too lazy to rig another container to make room for more head space in this one
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    Looking good! Glad to see somebody brewing, been too long for me
    When I get settled I need to brew something
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,467
    CZs said:

    My wife is actually thrilled I'm not doing this in our previous kitchen / basement and the new place will have brew/ferm room in my man-cave.



    I hate your face.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    C_B said:

    CZs said:

    My wife is actually thrilled I'm not doing this in our previous kitchen / basement and the new place will have brew/ferm room in my man-cave.



    I hate your face.


    Lol - "total facial"
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    scoob said:

    Looking good! Glad to see somebody brewing, been too long for me
    When I get settled I need to brew something



    Thanks - what do you have planned for your next one?
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,656
    CZs said:


    My wife is actually thrilled I'm not doing this in our previous kitchen / basement and the new place will have brew/ferm room in my man-cave / put everything away when people visit area lol.



    sweet. if i ever move, this is one of the crucial considerations for the new place.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    the room is just 7 x 12 with bright halogen lighting, another light over a utility sink with movable faucet hose, an expandable foldout table and a large cabinet with cupboard and 8 drawers where I can put 2 carboys on the inside and equipment/ 4 carboys across the top with draws for various ingredients and equipment/utensils - nothing too fancy - floor and wall panels that you can beat the hell out of - I figured I wanted the basement area to have my brew stuff / little bar and booth area - so why not make the wife happy and have it separated off when needed? - My favorite perk, although not needed, is a keypad on the door - make's me feel like I'm storing, um, "ultra important brews" lol

    Thym
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    CZs said:

    scoob said:

    Looking good! Glad to see somebody brewing, been too long for me
    When I get settled I need to brew something



    Thanks - what do you have planned for your next one?


    I'm planning a double brew day, I'm going to do my Bavarian hefe and either an IPA or an ordinary bitter.
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    Get on it scoob! Can't wait to hear about it. Just to update:

    A week later and this is down to 1.018 and still slowly chewing its way at about 82F. The taste is citrus, bread, and a clean crispness - slight bite but it is not overpowering. I might actually use another .25 - .5 oz of ginger next time and go from there. So far, it is slightly darker than expected, but def a deep golden color. I can smell the grassyness from the Cascade and Centennial and it plays well with those other flavors. This is the most "barnyard' tasting Saison-type brew I've made - This 3724 is much fruitier than the 3711 but I like it. I'm going to let this stick with 3724 alone and not mess with a good thing.

    I've decided at the last minute to brew today. The Danstar Belle Saison is going to be used in a Brown (hopefully Copperish) Saison instead using my leftover grains and some German Hallertau I want to use up. Look for the thread.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Sweet!
    I am curious about the Danstar yeast .... so make sure you post how it does!
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,656
    ceannt said:

    Sweet!
    I am curious about the Danstar yeast .... so make sure you post how it does!



    me too, since i have a pack.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,467
    CZs said:

    C_B said:

    CZs said:

    My wife is actually thrilled I'm not doing this in our previous kitchen / basement and the new place will have brew/ferm room in my man-cave.



    I hate your face.


    Lol - "total facial"


    It's not really that kind of site.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Yeah .... keep your krausen in the fermenter!
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    C_B said:

    CZs said:

    C_B said:

    CZs said:

    My wife is actually thrilled I'm not doing this in our previous kitchen / basement and the new place will have brew/ferm room in my man-cave.



    I hate your face.


    Lol - "total facial"


    It's not really that kind of site.


    Not a Dodgeball the movie fan huh?
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,656
    CZs said:

    C_B said:

    CZs said:

    C_B said:

    CZs said:

    My wife is actually thrilled I'm not doing this in our previous kitchen / basement and the new place will have brew/ferm room in my man-cave.



    I hate your face.


    Lol - "total facial"


    It's not really that kind of site.


    Not a Dodgeball the movie fan huh?


    no one makes me bleed my own blood!!!!
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228

    CZs said:

    C_B said:

    CZs said:

    C_B said:

    CZs said:

    My wife is actually thrilled I'm not doing this in our previous kitchen / basement and the new place will have brew/ferm room in my man-cave.



    I hate your face.


    Lol - "total facial"


    It's not really that kind of site.


    Not a Dodgeball the movie fan huh?


    no one makes me bleed my own blood!!!!


    Oh - don't get me started. "I see you caught the scent of a lesser stag."
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    talk about de-railing a perfectly good thread.....
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    carry on....
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    .... as you were
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    we're down to 1.014 on this - needs a few more weeks, probably 1.012 in a couple more days is my guess, then we'll see - still slowly goin
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,617
    Slow and steady is good.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    What lake said ..... can't rush awesome
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    hey gents, busy as hell - I haven't taken a gravity reading but noticed this morning that there is a small, thin layer of clean white krausen again - I'm betting this has gotten under the 1.010 mark. I'll check back on this towards the end of the week with gravity and tasting notes - smells nice and citrusy with something twangy mixed in there
  • CZsCZs
    Posts: 228
    FG is 1.004 on this. Bottling tonight. Funky, Honey, Citrusy, Bready, Grassy - like it - will be ready to drink for mid July.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Cool!
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,617
    sounds tastey
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny