1" NPS Locknut Kettle Mounting
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    I'm just spitballing here. I want a solid connection between my element mounts and my kettles. I did not want to go with the couplings as they are NPT instead of NPS. Some people say they are fine. Others run a NPS tap through them. Buying a tap that size isn't an option, no I am going with 1" 304SS NPS locknuts.

    If I solder them on the outer surface I may have a gap that gathers sugar and rust.

    If I cut out a hex hole and mount the nut 1/2 in-1/2 out it will put the conduit box really close to the kettle wall. That may or may not be much of a problem. Cutting the hex hole will be a little of a trick.

    What if I trace the nut, drill a hole from the center, cut to the corners, and press/hammer the nut in?
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  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    They are 1.75" across the flats. What if I drill a 1.75" hole and then was just able to cut the corners?
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  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    I would try for 1/2 in, 1/2 out, as that will give you the best result. It will be easiest if you can have someone with a lathe turn 1/2 of the nut down to a cylinder.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • BenSBenS
    Posts: 6,248
    I drilled a hole in my keg big enough for the element to go through, welded the nut onto the outside, and used food grade (bathroom) silicon adhesive to fill the area where wort could collect. Been on there 2 yrs, no rust.
    There's no starting point. It's just a massive sea of shit to wade through until you find the occasional corn kernel. -DrCurly
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    Lakewood said:

    I would try for 1/2 in, 1/2 out, as that will give you the best result. It will be easiest if you can have someone with a lathe turn 1/2 of the nut down to a cylinder.



    Good call. Now I gotta shop around my friends for a favor.
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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    jeepinjeepin said:

    Lakewood said:

    I would try for 1/2 in, 1/2 out, as that will give you the best result. It will be easiest if you can have someone with a lathe turn 1/2 of the nut down to a cylinder.



    Good call. Now I gotta shop around my friends for a favor.

    I have a lathe at the maintenance shop I could do this on. That doesn't help you but it makes me feel like I helped.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    C_dubbs said:

    jeepinjeepin said:

    Lakewood said:

    I would try for 1/2 in, 1/2 out, as that will give you the best result. It will be easiest if you can have someone with a lathe turn 1/2 of the nut down to a cylinder.



    Good call. Now I gotta shop around my friends for a favor.

    I have a lathe at the maintenance shop I could do this on. That doesn't help you but it makes me feel like I helped.


    Thanks?
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  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    Ship it to him.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    jeepinjeepin said:

    C_dubbs said:

    jeepinjeepin said:

    Lakewood said:

    I would try for 1/2 in, 1/2 out, as that will give you the best result. It will be easiest if you can have someone with a lathe turn 1/2 of the nut down to a cylinder.



    Good call. Now I gotta shop around my friends for a favor.

    I have a lathe at the maintenance shop I could do this on. That doesn't help you but it makes me feel like I helped.


    Thanks?

    No problem buddy, anytime.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    Really though, I'm diggin the thread. Take pictures and such because I want to build an E-HLT sometime probably. Maybe eventually an electric kettle too. But let's not get carried away.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    This is what I have right now. An area at least slightly larger than the black shaded circle will have to be removed. Then I would cut the inner lines and maybe score the outer lines to fold the tabs in to fit the nut before soldering. I know that I could do it with brass brazing rod on copper, but don't know if I can make it fit tight enough for solder and I don't think I want to deal with the price of high silver brazing.
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  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    Like Lake suggested, the best case scenario would be having a shoulder machined on the nuts and drill the kettle to that size.

    If I can't find a (cost effective) machining solution I may try to build some sort of mandrel to chuck the nuts up in a drill to turn a simple cone on one side against a grinding wheel.
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  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    jeepinjeepin said:

    Like Lake suggested, the best case scenario would be having a shoulder machined on the nuts and drill the kettle to that size.

    If I can't find a (cost effective) machining solution I may try to build some sort of mandrel to chuck the nuts up in a drill to turn a simple cone on one side against a grinding wheel.



    The grinding wheel would work.

    Btw, why are you brazing/soldering instead of welding?
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    I don't have access or experience with TIG and I don't have the extra cash to hire much of this out. That and I want the satisfaction of the DIY.
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  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    jeepinjeepin said:

    I don't have access or experience with TIG and I don't have the extra cash to hire much of this out. That and I want the satisfaction of the DIY.



    i use MIG for this stuff, it's not as clean as TIG but with the right feed and power you can get a fine weld.

    frankly now, that i've got more experience i could do a lot better than what i have on my rig, but i don't have any trouble with the welds i've got so i don't really care.

    make the weld on the outside. get it good and filleted. then if you feel the need run a thin bead on the inside. since you already welded the outside, temp control will be a lot easier on the inside weld. on the inside bead, run it hot, with just enough wire to keep the arc constant. make sure you are using tri-mix and keep the flow rate relatively high on the gas.

    in the end, the exposed threads and the end of the threaded joint will present more cracks and crevices than even doing an exterior only weld, so the interior weld really is sort of pointless.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    I would have attempted it a few years ago when I was in the garage full time and was welding for everybody else. As it stands now, last summer was the last time I remember doing any welding and there may have been one time between that and the prior summer.
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  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    jeepinjeepin said:

    I would have attempted it a few years ago when I was in the garage full time and was welding for everybody else. As it stands now, last summer was the last time I remember doing any welding and there may have been one time between that and the prior summer.



    fair enough :)
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    And now I've chickened out, kinda. I've been convinced that the welding might not be all that expensive and I have 2 guys in my sights. Friends of a friend. Competent dudes. Now I just have to decide how many holes I want in these things and buy some fittings. 3 vessels, each get a element nut and drain. 2 get sight glasses? 2 get thermometers?
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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    What's your chilling situation? May want to look at a recirc for the boil kettle.
    An element nut on all three... Are you putting an element in the MLT?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    C_dubbs said:

    What's your chilling situation? May want to look at a recirc for the boil kettle.
    An element nut on all three... Are you putting an element in the MLT?



    I have an immersion chiller that may become a HERMS coil and a plate chiller that I haven't used yet. Thanks for the recirc reminder. The 3rd vessel is kinda like a second HLT... I'll be mashing in a cooler for the time being.
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  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    I'd map it out before committing to anything. I like to draw little diagrams thayt show what each piece is and how it will be connected. Need to be clear as to what each vessel will be used for.

    As for sight glasses, they are really only useful on a vessel where you can't see the fluid level... Like a mash tun
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    Lakewood said:

    I'd map it out before committing to anything. I like to draw little diagrams thayt show what each piece is and how it will be connected. Need to be clear as to what each vessel will be used for.

    As for sight glasses, they are really only useful on a vessel where you can't see the fluid level... Like a mash tun


    Yeah... Lake and I disagree on the usefulness of sight glasses, but that's old news. I say put one on every vessel. You're Already putting a bulkhead in for a thermometer, adding a sight glass isn't much at that point.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    I see the mash tun as the least useful and most troublesome of sight glasses. One on the HLT will let you measure strike and sparge going into MLT and one on the BK will show boil off.
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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    jeepinjeepin said:

    I see the mash tun as the least useful and most troublesome of sight glasses. One on the HLT will let you measure strike and sparge going into MLT and one on the BK will show boil off.


    Lakewood disagrees.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    Really though.... Mock it up on paper. Everything else lakewood said was solid info. :D
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    C_dubbs said:

    Really though.... Mock it up on paper. Everything else lakewood said was solid info. :D



    I started writing it up. Next step is drawing.
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  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    On thermometers...I plan on being able to recirculate everything. I guess that negates the need for thermometers in the kettles since there would be thermocouples in the recirculation piping. I'll need a second pump I think.
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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    jeepinjeepin said:

    On thermometers...I plan on being able to recirculate everything. I guess that negates the need for thermometers in the kettles since there would be thermocouples in the recirculation piping. I'll need a second pump I think.


    In that case maybe you don't need a thermometer/sight glass there. Will you be recirculating when you're coming up to a boil? I like to keep an eye on the temp so I can see how far away from hot break (and potential foam volcano) I am.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    It's great being able to talk this stuff over. I would not be recirculating coming up to a boil. It would only be recirculating post boil and possibly during chilling.
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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    jeepinjeepin said:

    It's great being able to talk this stuff over. I would not be recirculating coming up to a boil. It would only be recirculating post boil and possibly during chilling.


    Other than knowing preboil temp I don't see a reason. That would be good enough for me to put a thermometer and a sight glass on it though.
    Also, where is the thermocouple going to be located in the recirc loop?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    I assume I'll have a valve with 2 tees or a 3 way valve on the pump output. The thermocouple would be on the pump side of the valve assembly.
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  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    Still mulling over feasibility stuff. Probably gonna be a bunch of QDs to switch the pump assembly between HLT/MLT and MLT/BK. I already have one pump. I'll add a second when I can ($) if I need it.
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  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    This is what I have for now. The MLT will be a 10 gallon cooler for now. I may or may not go to a keg later.
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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    jeepinjeepin said:

    This is what I have for now. The MLT will be a 10 gallon cooler for now. I may or may not go to a keg later.



    Understanding this is a VERY rough sketch.... A couple thoughts...

    The MLT will need to run through the pump if this is a single tier system?
    I think the whirlpool fitting on the boil kettle is at the 5 gallon level? Lakewood and I have a discussion about that somewhere around here....
    And what is the QD for at the top of the HLT?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    I'm still up in the air on whether I go single tier or a two tier with the bk lower. If I go single tier I will have to decide on adding a second pump or making the first modular. If I add a second pump I will likely kill nearly all if not all the QDs.

    Yeah, I drew the whirlpool at the top but then noted 5 gal level on a whim. What was the consensus?

    QD near top of HLT to recirc HLT. Stratification of a non boiling fluid?
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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    jeepinjeepin said:

    I'm still up in the air on whether I go single tier or a two tier with the bk lower. If I go single tier I will have to decide on adding a second pump or making the first modular. If I add a second pump I will likely kill nearly all if not all the QDs.

    Yeah, I drew the whirlpool at the top but then noted 5 gal level on a whim. What was the consensus?

    QD near top of HLT to recirc HLT. Stratification of a non boiling fluid?



    I have a set of plans/drawings where the MLT was above the BK and HLT. Interesting thought either way.
    Consensus? I think draw off the top/middle and return on the bottom. The problem with that in my eyes is requiring a separate bulkhead to angle sideways, thus avoiding turbulent flow.

    Oh right, you may turn the HLT into a heat exchanger. Got it.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    Wait wait... I just realized you aren't showing the HEX on there in the HLT? Without that is the recirc necessary? Someone else might weigh in here, but I'm not sure stratification is a big deal if the heating is coming from a single source at the bottom of the vessel and you aren't using it as a heat exchanger.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    Sorry. Didn't label them. The big black dots in the fronts of HLT and BK. Those will be 4500 or 5500 watt elements.
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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    jeepinjeepin said:

    Sorry. Didn't label them. The big black dots in the fronts of HLT and BK. Those will be 4500 or 5500 watt elements.



    I mean are you planning to use the HLT with a HERMS coil to maintain mash temps? I thought I read that somewhere....
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    Yeah, that's the current plan. In the cooler it wouldn't really be needed outside of long mashes and slow steps.
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  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    Ok, so maybe I should explain my reasoning for the sight glass on the MLT a little better..

    it's not to gauge the volume of fluid in the MLT. That wouldn't work well at all since the amount of grain in the tun would effect the sight glass level and render the measurement useless...

    The purpose is to gauge the LEVEL of the fluid in the tun. That way as you drain the tun you know where the fluid level is at once it drops below the top of the grain bed. That way you dont drain it dry and suck air into your pickup while you are lautering. i typically fly sparge, but will shut of the fly as i go since balancing input and output rates is very difficult, so in essence I do a pseudo batch sparge as I go. As im getting close to the end of the lauter, I want to maintain a certain minimum level of sparge water in the tun. I really has nothing to do with volume.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    Preliminary quote of $100, 2 hours @ $50/hr to weld (3) 1" element locknuts and (6) 1/2" couplings. That includes making and cleaning up the holes for the fittings.
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  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    That is reasonable. Tske a look at some of his recent work before commiting.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    Take a look for yourself. http://www.reapercustomfabrication.com/portfolio.html
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  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    jeepinjeepin said:

    Take a look for yourself. http://www.reapercustomfabrication.com/portfolio.html



    cool projects. though i can't really see the detail of any actual welds. but if people are paying the kind of coin involved in projects like that, i'll assume its quality welding.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    Yeah, his day job is welder/fabricator at a place called Spevco (Special Vehicles Company). I think he has been there 5 or 6 years. It's what he has been doing since leaving Iraq as a USMC scout/sniper. He came recommended by a hot rod friend/coworker.
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  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    jeepinjeepin said:

    Yeah, his day job is welder/fabricator at a place called Spevco (Special Vehicles Company). I think he has been there 5 or 6 years. It's what he has been doing since leaving Iraq as a USMC scout/sniper. He came recommended by a hot rod friend/coworker.



    sweet
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    I got my fittings in today. Gotta make sure I know exactly what I want tonight. Going to see the welder tomorrow. Sounds like an awesome dude. If I brought them tonight he was gonna deliver them back on Sunday.
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  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    jeepinjeepin said:

    I got my fittings in today. Gotta make sure I know exactly what I want tonight. Going to see the welder tomorrow. Sounds like an awesome dude. If I brought them tonight he was gonna deliver them back on Sunday.



    awesome!

    PICTURES! PICTURES! PICTURES!
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    jeepinjeepin said:

    I got my fittings in today. Gotta make sure I know exactly what I want tonight. Going to see the welder tomorrow. Sounds like an awesome dude. If I brought them tonight he was gonna deliver them back on Sunday.


    Sounds like a cool dude.
    Lakewood said:

    jeepinjeepin said:

    I got my fittings in today. Gotta make sure I know exactly what I want tonight. Going to see the welder tomorrow. Sounds like an awesome dude. If I brought them tonight he was gonna deliver them back on Sunday.


    awesome!
    PICTURES! PICTURES! PICTURES!

    All of this. All of it.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    I paid good money, but feel like I got my money's worth.
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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    jeepinjeepin said:

    I paid good money, but feel like I got my money's worth.


    Dang. Does the inside look like that too? That is vurrry nice.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    Here is an inside.
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  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    And all the 1/2" couplings look pretty much the same.
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  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    good looking work.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
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