Overshooting extract SG on BeerSmith
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    I put all my recipes in BeerSmith before brewing. I have overshot the starting gravity on a few extract recipes by 10 points, 1.064 instead of 1.054. What the hell is going on? If its the software, what can I do. Could I be doing something during the brewing process? My volumes seem ok, but I do notice BS estimates starting volumes much higher than I use. I don't get nearly the boil off.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,005
    Starting volumes shouldn't matter if you're post boil volume is the same. Do you know what BS thinks is the potential PPG? Everything else being equal I would check that.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Yeah .... check what your suppliers claims the potential gravity points are ... and compare to what the software is calculating with ... not all extracts are created equal
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,636
    maybe post the recipe so we can see what BS is doing
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    How do you guys post the recipes so nicely here?
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,636
    Benvarine said:

    How do you guys post the recipes so nicely here?



    I think BS has an HTML formatted output
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    I can't figure it out, I tried the help section and still don't know what the hell I'm doing but I can't get a report run except the print preview.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,636
    @jlw uses BS I think. If he can't help I'll try figuring out.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,005
    Benvarine said:

    How do you guys post the recipes so nicely here?


    I copy and paste from Hopville and then go all format ninja on it's ass with the space bar and delete key.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Sorry, just now picking up this email and question. Busy last night I know is no excuse.

    I'll look into the original question today since I am working from home and can look on my lap top.

    as for the the posting recipes it's simple.

    1. On the main screen where the recipes are listed select the recipe with single click (you don't want to open)
    2. In the recipe view window in the upper right hand corner is a drop down box titles "recipe report". Select "Plain Text"
    3. Highlight the recipe for a copy/paste function. Right click and select copy then paste to wherever you want to paste.

    If you do a ctrl+C it will not work. I use a lot of short cut keys and make this mistake all the time. However, once you have the recipe successfully copied you can use ctrl+V to paste here or anywhere else.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    @Benvarine see above
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    Thanks. I'll do it tonight.
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
    Recipe: Hallertau Pale
    Brewer: Ben Grossman
    Asst Brewer:
    Style: American Pale Ale
    TYPE: Extract
    Taste: (30.0)

    Recipe Specifications
    --------------------------
    Boil Size: 6.50 gal
    Post Boil Volume: 4.50 gal
    Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
    Bottling Volume: 4.25 gal
    Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
    Estimated Color: 10.8 SRM
    Estimated IBU: 33.1 IBUs
    Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
    Est Mash Efficiency: 0.0 %
    Boil Time: 60 Minutes

    Ingredients:
    ------------
    Amt Name Type # %/IBU
    1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 1 20.0 %
    6 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 2 80.0 %
    0.50 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 3 22.1 IBUs
    0.75 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 4 5.1 IBUs
    0.75 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 5 3.8 IBUs
    0.75 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 2.1 IBUs
    1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 Yeast 7 -


    Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
    Total Grain Weight: 7 lbs 8.0 oz
    ----------------------------

    Sparge: Remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
    Notes:
    ------

  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    I'll plug this in tomorrow and see what we get.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,005
    At 4.5 gallons post boil with 6lbs of DME (40ppg) I calculate the OG at 1.0533.
    The efficiency is assumed at 0%. 1.5lbs of Crystal 40 should give you .01219ppg at 100% eff which isn't too far out of question if you crush fine in a bag "mashing" in way too much water like I did extract with specialty grain brews.

    This puts you at a theoretical OG of 1.0655.

    I think BS is assuming you are getting no gravity points out of the crystal 40.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Interesting ..... I at first thought that perhaps the software was applying your efficiency to the DME ..... but nope ..... that would put it in the 40s
    I calculate your recipe to 1.060......
    I agree with the above ... I think it is not including anything from the crystal
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Extract recipes are easy to figure .... do the calculations by hand ...
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,636
    BS is so bad at recipe formulation it's frightening.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Lakewood said:

    BS is so bad at recipe formulation it's frightening.



    This
    and why the name is appropriate ....
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    I am going to post a thread on how to calculate gravity for extract recipes ... using this as an example
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,636
    ceannt said:

    I am going to post a thread on how to calculate gravity for extract recipes ... using this as an example



    Fantastic!
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    So, it wasn't necessarily anything involved in my process, more likely the software? Screw it, I'm going all grain.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,782
    Benvarine said:

    So, it wasn't necessarily anything involved in my process, more likely the software? Screw it, I'm going all grain.



    wooo! good choice.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Where most software really breaks down is in the IBU calcs .... if you add extract late (good idea) it figures the boil gravity all wrong ....
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Benvarine said:

    So, it wasn't necessarily anything involved in my process, more likely the software? Screw it, I'm going all grain.



    Yes, you should. I know BS probably isn;t the greatest thing out there but I really haven't had many problems building recipes using the software.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,005
    ceannt said:

    I am going to post a thread on how to calculate gravity for extract recipes ... using this as an example


    Good stuff!
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,005
    Benvarine said:

    So, it wasn't necessarily anything involved in my process, more likely the software? Screw it, I'm going all grain.


    Extract is petty hard to screw up on the gravities.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,005
    C_dubbs said:

    At 4.5 gallons post boil with 6lbs of DME (40ppg) I calculate the OG at 1.0533.
    The efficiency is assumed at 0%. 1.5lbs of Crystal 40 should give you .01219ppg at 100% eff which isn't too far out of question if you crush fine in a bag "mashing" in way too much water like I did extract with specialty grain brews.

    This puts you at a theoretical OG of 1.0655.

    I think BS is assuming you are getting no gravity points out of the crystal 40.



    I calculated DME at 40 ppg. Ceannt used 44 points in his calculation thread. This would explain a more realistic extraction from the crystal in my calculation.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Here is what I got.

    BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
    Recipe: Benvarine's Halertauer Pal Ale
    Brewer: Ben
    Asst Brewer:
    Style: American Pale Ale
    TYPE: Extract
    Taste: (30.0)

    Recipe Specifications
    --------------------------
    Boil Size: 6.93 gal
    Post Boil Volume: 5.72 gal
    Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
    Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
    Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
    Estimated Color: 11.5 SRM
    Estimated IBU: 39.7 IBUs
    Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
    Est Mash Efficiency: 0.0 %
    Boil Time: 60 Minutes

    Ingredients:
    ------------
    Amt Name Type # %/IBU
    1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 1 20.0 %
    6 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 2 80.0 %
    0.50 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 3 25.7 IBUs
    0.75 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 4 6.6 IBUs
    0.75 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 5 4.8 IBUs
    0.75 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 2.6 IBUs
    1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 Yeast 7 -


    Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
    Total Grain Weight: 7 lbs 8.0 oz
    ----------------------------

    Sparge: Remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
    Notes:
    ------


    Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,005
    That reminds me of another question... Why is the post boil volume in Ben's recipe less than the bottling volume by a half gallon?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    C_dubbs said:

    That reminds me of another question... Why is the post boil volume in Ben's recipe less than the bottling volume by a half gallon?



    I would guess that it is estimating losses in the trub
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    I agree, but that is just an assumption.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,005
    ceannt said:

    C_dubbs said:

    That reminds me of another question... Why is the post boil volume in Ben's recipe less than the bottling volume by a half gallon?


    I would guess that it is estimating losses in the trub

    Benvarine said:

    I agree, but that is just an assumption.


    I'm sorry, I mistyped.... Post boil less than fermenter by a half gallon.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Benvarine said:

    I agree, but that is just an assumption.



    I would say that is pretty accurate.
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