Help me design a Pale Ale for these hops.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    Centennial 8.0% 2.3oz, Palisade 7.3% 1.7oz - combined in one package.
    Palisade 7.3% 1.0oz, Cascade (U.S.) 5.4% 1.0oz -combined.
    Cascade (U.S.) 5.4% 0.5oz, Mt. hood 5.2% 0.5oz - combined.

    So I received a 5 gallon extract kit with these hops plus some more Palisade and a pile of DME and some specialty grains that I haven't figured out yet. I don't want to do the kit as it was intended for a couple reasons.
    I'd like to turn it into a (or a couple) 10 gallon partial mash using my 5 gallon MLT to mash speciality grains and as much base malt as I can (max out the MLT at 15 lbs), making up the difference with DME.
    I'd like something in the sessionable IPA area. Not epic big. Maybe 5%-6% and not face punch hoppy. I've been drinking SN Torpedo lately and love it's balance. Enough bitter and aroma without the heavy, thick feel of something like arrogant bastard. Also, I assume I'll have to fill in the blanks with new ingredients.
    Thoughts?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    this is your 60 minute addition
    Cascade (U.S.) 5.4% 0.5oz, Mt. hood 5.2% 0.5oz - combined.

    use this at 20 minutes
    Palisade 7.3% 1.0oz, Cascade (U.S.) 5.4% 1.0oz -combined.

    use this at 5 minutes
    Centennial 8.0% 2.3oz, Palisade 7.3% 1.7oz - combined in one package.

    dry hop with the extra palisade you talked about.

    pair it with maybe 7 or 8 pounds of DME and a half pound of 10L and half pound of victory for your specialty grains.


    that'll do ya.
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    oh and use S-05
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    I agree with Fry above. Two other options:
    1. Can you FWH a partial mash? If so you could consider moving either the Mt. Hood or the Cascade to FWH to bump up the IBU's.
    2. Also, starting at the 20 min addition you could spread out your additions in 5 min increments. I persoanlly like late additions for the flavor and aroma you get.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454

    oh and use S-05



    S-05 is becoming my go to yeast for a lot of my beers and especially IPA's It's clean, cheaper than liquid and you don't need a starter for gravities under ~1.090. Even above that you are probably safe to just re-hydrate and pitch.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,824
    jlw said:

    oh and use S-05



    S-05 is becoming my go to yeast for a lot of my beers and especially IPA's It's clean, cheaper than liquid and you don't need a starter for gravities under ~1.090. Even above that you are probably safe to just re-hydrate and pitch.


    I use S-05 a lot. .. several folks have been fooled unto thinking that brews made with it were lagers ....
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,824
    But I like S-04 for IPAs... the fruitiness really goes well with an aggressive hop profile
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,824
    Oh.... yes you can FWH a partial mash .... let the hops steep for 20 minutes or so in the runnings before the boil
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271

    this is your 60 minute addition
    Cascade (U.S.) 5.4% 0.5oz, Mt. hood 5.2% 0.5oz - combined.

    use this at 20 minutes
    Palisade 7.3% 1.0oz, Cascade (U.S.) 5.4% 1.0oz -combined.

    use this at 5 minutes
    Centennial 8.0% 2.3oz, Palisade 7.3% 1.7oz - combined in one package.

    dry hop with the extra palisade you talked about.

    pair it with maybe 7 or 8 pounds of DME and a half pound of 10L and half pound of victory for your specialty grains.


    that'll do ya.


    For a 10 gallon batch?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    jlw said:

    I agree with Fry above. Two other options:
    1. Can you FWH a partial mash? If so you could consider moving either the Mt. Hood or the Cascade to FWH to bump up the IBU's.
    2. Also, starting at the 20 min addition you could spread out your additions in 5 min increments. I persoanlly like late additions for the flavor and aroma you get.


    1) yes. I'm still going to mash ~15 pounds of grain. I'll just use the DME to fill in.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    CB said:

    this is your 60 minute addition
    Cascade (U.S.) 5.4% 0.5oz, Mt. hood 5.2% 0.5oz - combined.

    use this at 20 minutes
    Palisade 7.3% 1.0oz, Cascade (U.S.) 5.4% 1.0oz -combined.

    use this at 5 minutes
    Centennial 8.0% 2.3oz, Palisade 7.3% 1.7oz - combined in one package.

    dry hop with the extra palisade you talked about.

    pair it with maybe 7 or 8 pounds of DME and a half pound of 10L and half pound of victory for your specialty grains.


    that'll do ya.


    For a 10 gallon batch?


    hell no son, you said you wanted an ipa.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271

    CB said:

    this is your 60 minute addition
    Cascade (U.S.) 5.4% 0.5oz, Mt. hood 5.2% 0.5oz - combined.

    use this at 20 minutes
    Palisade 7.3% 1.0oz, Cascade (U.S.) 5.4% 1.0oz -combined.

    use this at 5 minutes
    Centennial 8.0% 2.3oz, Palisade 7.3% 1.7oz - combined in one package.

    dry hop with the extra palisade you talked about.

    pair it with maybe 7 or 8 pounds of DME and a half pound of 10L and half pound of victory for your specialty grains.


    that'll do ya.


    For a 10 gallon batch?


    hell no son, you said you wanted an ipa.


    Ha, I thought as much. I want to make a 10 gallon batch, so I have some scaling to do.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    you need to go buy more hops
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271

    you need to go buy more hops


    I expected as much. What and how many is what I'm driving for.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    I'll punch this in to hopville or something later tonight and put together an actual recipe.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,317
    You should have enough palisade to bump up each addition to 10 gallon levels.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    Lakewood said:

    You should have enough palisade to bump up each addition to 10 gallon levels.


    I just weighted the extra Palisade. There is 6+ oz there.

    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,317
    CB said:

    Lakewood said:

    You should have enough palisade to bump up each addition to 10 gallon levels.


    I just weighted the extra Palisade. There is 6+ oz there.



    You should definitely put all of that in.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    Lakewood said:

    CB said:

    Lakewood said:

    You should have enough palisade to bump up each addition to 10 gallon levels.


    I just weighted the extra Palisade. There is 6+ oz there.



    You should definitely put all of that in.


    ayup
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    @Lakewood Any idea what the 14 oz of crushed grain in this it is?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,317
    CB said:

    @Lakewood Any idea what the 14 oz of crushed grain in this it is?



    it's all of the specialty grains from the wicked angel recipe. The DME covers the base malt from the posted recipe.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,317
    @CB
    from the 10Gal recipe...

    Carastan (Crystal), 15 1.5 6%
    Wheat Malt (GWM) 0.25 1%

    you can ratio the amounts, but basically it's Crystal 15 with a touch of Wheat.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    Lakewood said:

    @CB
    from the 10Gal recipe...

    Carastan (Crystal), 15 1.5 6%
    Wheat Malt (GWM) 0.25 1%

    you can ratio the amounts, but basically it's Crystal 15 with a touch of Wheat.


    I'll assume it is scaled to that ratio.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    Specific Gravity
    1.064 OG
    (1.057 to 1.067)
    15.7° Plato
    1.017 FG
    (1.015 to 1.018)
    4.3° Plato
    Color
    6° SRM
    11° EBC
    Yellow to Gold

    Malt & Fermentables
    % LB OZ °L
    67% 14 ~ Great Western Premium 2-Row Malt
    29% 6 ~ Briess DME Golden Light
    3% ~ 10 Crystal 15L
    1% ~ 4 Wheat Malt

    Hops
    Usage Time OZ AA » IBU
    FWH 20 min ½ Cascade ~ pellet 5.5 » 3.6
    FWH 20 min ½ Mt. Hood ~ pellet 6.0 » 4.0
    boil 25 min 1 Cascade ~ pellet 5.5 » 8.3
    boil 25 min 1 Palisades ~ pellet 7.3 » 11.1
    boil 5 min 2 ¼ Centennial ~ pellet 8.0 » 7.8
    boil 5 min 1 ¾ Palisades ~ pellet 7.3 » 5.6

    Bitterness
    40.4 IBU
    ƒ: Tinseth
    0 HBU


    Yeast
    Safale US-05 Dry Yeast
    yeast in dry form with low to medium flocculation and 73% attenuation

    Alcohol
    6.3% ABV
    5.0% ABW

    Calories
    211
    per 12 oz.


    As you hop heads look at this and cringe for the lack of hops, remember I want an easy drinking low-mid hopped IPA (because I'm not a hop head). I still have 6oz of Palisades I could add in here anywhere or dry hop with.
    Should I add more Palisades to the FWH? If I do that do I need to add a balanced amount of Mt. Hood to the FWH?
    Should I get a different hop to Dry Hop?
    Will this be weak?
    Thoughts?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    i am fighting the urge to fly off on my rant about things like "session IPA's" and crap like that.

    bottom line, 40 IBU's is not an IPA. it looks like you're making a good old generic pale ale. nothing wrong with that, but its not an IPA.

    with the notoriety of "IPA" the past several years, it is being tacked onto way too many beer styles, making it a serious pain in my ass when i am purchase IPA's at a bar or store to try a new one and find out its a weakly hopped pale or something.

    *pretty proud of this, although it looks like a rant, i held back greatly! yay!
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,317

    i am fighting the urge to fly off on my rant about things like "session IPA's" and crap like that.

    bottom line, 40 IBU's is not an IPA. it looks like you're making a good old generic pale ale. nothing wrong with that, but its not an IPA.

    with the notoriety of "IPA" the past several years, it is being tacked onto way too many beer styles, making it a serious pain in my ass when i am purchase IPA's at a bar or store to try a new one and find out its a weakly hopped pale or something.

    *pretty proud of this, although it looks like a rant, i held back greatly! yay!



    While Fry is obviously way too emotional about the subject, he's right, this is just a pale ale or blonde. But there's nothing wrong with that. Enjoy.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    One thing I would add is a flame out addition. Throw some of that palisade in when you shut the boil off an let is steep for 30 min. No bitterness but you will get great aroma and some flava flav
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,317
    Or just dry hop the whole 6
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271

    i am fighting the urge to fly off on my rant about things like "session IPA's" and crap like that.

    bottom line, 40 IBU's is not an IPA. it looks like you're making a good old generic pale ale. nothing wrong with that, but its not an IPA.

    with the notoriety of "IPA" the past several years, it is being tacked onto way too many beer styles, making it a serious pain in my ass when i am purchase IPA's at a bar or store to try a new one and find out its a weakly hopped pale or something.

    *pretty proud of this, although it looks like a rant, i held back greatly! yay!


    Ah. You are correct. I am definitely guilty of calling anything that has more hops than malt an IPA. I have corrected the title to reflect this.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    jlw said:

    One thing I would add is a flame out addition. Throw some of that palisade in when you shut the boil off an let is steep for 30 min. No bitterness but you will get great aroma and some flava flav


    Lakewood said:

    Or just dry hop the whole 6


    What is more shelf stable? I'm thinking about dry hopping one bucket as soon as the beer is done but waiting a month to dry hop the other bucket so it is closer to the time I'll actually drink the second half of the batch.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    CB said:

    I still have 6oz of Palisades I could add in here anywhere or dry hop with.
    If I add more Palisades to the FWH, do I need to add a balanced amount of Mt. Hood to the FWH?
    Should I get a different hop to Dry Hop?
    Thoughts?


    These things where not answered after Fry's rant.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,317
    CB said:

    CB said:

    I still have 6oz of Palisades I could add in here anywhere or dry hop with.
    If I add more Palisades to the FWH, do I need to add a balanced amount of Mt. Hood to the FWH?
    Should I get a different hop to Dry Hop?
    Thoughts?


    These things where not answered after Fry's rant.


    palisade is fine for bumping up the FWH and doing the dry hop. You will lose a touch of complexity by reducing the Mt. Hood ratio, but it's not going to be bad, just different.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,317
    CB said:

    jlw said:

    One thing I would add is a flame out addition. Throw some of that palisade in when you shut the boil off an let is steep for 30 min. No bitterness but you will get great aroma and some flava flav


    Lakewood said:

    Or just dry hop the whole 6


    What is more shelf stable? I'm thinking about dry hopping one bucket as soon as the beer is done but waiting a month to dry hop the other bucket so it is closer to the time I'll actually drink the second half of the batch.


    i don't think there is any science out there on whether the flavor/aroma from a flame out addition is more or less stable than the compounds released through dry hoping. i could be wrong there, but i haven't seen it. They result in different flavor/aroma profiles though. with dry hopping being a much more intense aroma punch, while flame out addition will give you more of a flavor boost with a lot less aroma.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    Lakewood said:

    CB said:

    jlw said:

    One thing I would add is a flame out addition. Throw some of that palisade in when you shut the boil off an let is steep for 30 min. No bitterness but you will get great aroma and some flava flav


    Lakewood said:

    Or just dry hop the whole 6

    What is more shelf stable? I'm thinking about dry hopping one bucket as soon as the beer is done but waiting a month to dry hop the other bucket so it is closer to the time I'll actually drink the second half of the batch.


    i don't think there is any science out there on whether the flavor/aroma from a flame out addition is more or less stable than the compounds released through dry hoping. i could be wrong there, but i haven't seen it. They result in different flavor/aroma profiles though. with dry hopping being a much more intense aroma punch, while flame out addition will give you more of a flavor boost with a lot less aroma.


    can you peel off 5 gals then do the flame out addition on the remaining half? shouldn't be too hard.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271

    Lakewood said:

    CB said:

    jlw said:

    One thing I would add is a flame out addition. Throw some of that palisade in when you shut the boil off an let is steep for 30 min. No bitterness but you will get great aroma and some flava flav


    Lakewood said:

    Or just dry hop the whole 6

    What is more shelf stable? I'm thinking about dry hopping one bucket as soon as the beer is done but waiting a month to dry hop the other bucket so it is closer to the time I'll actually drink the second half of the batch.


    i don't think there is any science out there on whether the flavor/aroma from a flame out addition is more or less stable than the compounds released through dry hoping. i could be wrong there, but i haven't seen it. They result in different flavor/aroma profiles though. with dry hopping being a much more intense aroma punch, while flame out addition will give you more of a flavor boost with a lot less aroma.


    can you peel off 5 gals then do the flame out addition on the remaining half? shouldn't be too hard.

    Too hard? No. Annoying because I use an IC to chill while recirculating with a pump? Yes.

    I'll think on this one though.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    jlw said:

    One thing I would add is a flame out addition. Throw some of that palisade in when you shut the boil off an let is steep for 30 min. No bitterness but you will get great aroma and some flava flav


    Lakewood said:

    CB said:

    CB said:

    I still have 6oz of Palisades I could add in here anywhere or dry hop with.
    If I add more Palisades to the FWH, do I need to add a balanced amount of Mt. Hood to the FWH?
    Should I get a different hop to Dry Hop?
    Thoughts?


    These things where not answered after Fry's rant.

    palisade is fine for bumping up the FWH and doing the dry hop. You will lose a touch of complexity by reducing the Mt. Hood ratio, but it's not going to be bad, just different.

    Hops
    Usage Time OZ AA » IBU
    FWH 20 min 1.5 Cascade ~ pellet 5.5 » 10.9
    FWH 20 min 1.5 Mt. Hood ~ pellet 6.0 » 11.9
    boil 25 min 1 Cascade ~ pellet 5.5 » 7.3
    boil 25 min 1 Palisades ~ pellet 7.3 » 9.6
    boil 5 min 2 ¼ Centennial ~ pellet 8.0 » 7.8
    boil 5 min 1 ¾ Palisades ~ pellet 7.3 » 5.6
    Flame out 1(??)Palisades(??)
    This calculates to 53.1 IBU.

    What's urrybody think about this?
    Should I use Palisade for dry hop or something completely different? Centennial or something...?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    C_dubbs said:

    jlw said:

    One thing I would add is a flame out addition. Throw some of that palisade in when you shut the boil off an let is steep for 30 min. No bitterness but you will get great aroma and some flava flav


    Lakewood said:

    CB said:

    CB said:

    I still have 6oz of Palisades I could add in here anywhere or dry hop with.
    If I add more Palisades to the FWH, do I need to add a balanced amount of Mt. Hood to the FWH?
    Should I get a different hop to Dry Hop?
    Thoughts?


    These things where not answered after Fry's rant.

    palisade is fine for bumping up the FWH and doing the dry hop. You will lose a touch of complexity by reducing the Mt. Hood ratio, but it's not going to be bad, just different.

    Hops
    Usage Time OZ AA » IBU
    FWH 20 min 1.5 Cascade ~ pellet 5.5 » 10.9
    FWH 20 min 1.5 Mt. Hood ~ pellet 6.0 » 11.9
    boil 25 min 1 Cascade ~ pellet 5.5 » 7.3
    boil 25 min 1 Palisades ~ pellet 7.3 » 9.6
    boil 5 min 2 ¼ Centennial ~ pellet 8.0 » 7.8
    boil 5 min 1 ¾ Palisades ~ pellet 7.3 » 5.6
    Flame out 1(??)Palisades(??)
    This calculates to 53.1 IBU.

    What's urrybody think about this?
    Should I use Palisade for dry hop or something completely different? Centennial or something...?


    How many oz of Palisades should I use at Flameout?

    I'm picking up the stuff for this Friday to brew next week. This is more hops than anything I have brewed yet (other than the WA that I screwed up), so I'm pretty stoked.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    I would add 2 oz at flameout. Make sure you let it rest after you add the flameout hops.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    jlw said:

    I would add 2 oz at flameout. Make sure you let it rest after you add the flameout hops.



    30 minutes? That's easy enough. Is there any reason not to start the whirlpool then? As it is now (only one brew with a pump) I put the IC in with 15 to go and then start the pump and whirlpool after that, somewhere around 5 to go.
    Now I'm getting all excited...
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,317
    Is that 30 minutes while chilling or 30 minutes before chilling?
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Lakewood said:

    Is that 30 minutes while chilling or 30 minutes before chilling?



    I guess there are couple different ways to do it. I personally throw them when I shut the flame off and then cover the pot with foil and let them sit for 30 min.

    I have also read to throw them in and then chill as quickly as possible.\

    I have also read to bring the wort temp down to 180 and then throw them in.

    Not sure if there is a right or wrong way with this technique. I guess letting it sit for 30 minutes could create potential issues but I have never had a problem.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    C_dubbs said:

    jlw said:

    I would add 2 oz at flameout. Make sure you let it rest after you add the flameout hops.



    30 minutes? That's easy enough. Is there any reason not to start the whirlpool then? As it is now (only one brew with a pump) I put the IC in with 15 to go and then start the pump and whirlpool after that, somewhere around 5 to go.
    Now I'm getting all excited...

    Let me clarify what I meant by this.... Whirlpool, and have the IC in the kettle, but I won't turn on the chilling water until after the 30 minute rest. This should have a really nice whirlpool since the valve will only need to be open a little bit.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,317
    I throw them in and chill as quickly as possible. Letting it sit above 180 will isomerize the hops, losing the crispness.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    Lakewood said:

    I throw them in and chill as quickly as possible. Letting it sit above 180 will isomerize the hops, losing the crispness.



    this is what i do too, for the same reason.

    i have let them sit before, but always ended up with more bitterness than aroma
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Lakewood said:

    I throw them in and chill as quickly as possible. Letting it sit above 180 will isomerize the hops, losing the crispness.



    I'll give this try next time.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    Malt & Fermentables

    % LB OZ °L PPG
    65% 14 ~ Great Western Premium 2-Row Malt
    28% 6 ~ Briess DME Golden Light
    3% ~ 10 Crystal 15L
    2% ~ 8 Victory Malt
    1% ~ 4 Wheat Malt

    Specific Gravity
    1.065 OG
    (1.058 to 1.068)
    15.9° Plato

    Hops
    Time OZ AA » IBU
    FWH 1 ½ Cascade ~ pellet 5.5 » 17.8
    FWH 1 ½ Mt. Hood ~ pellet 6.0 » 19.4
    20 min 1 Cascade ~ pellet 5.5 » 7.2
    20 min 1 Palisades ~ pellet 7.3 » 9.5
    5 min 2 ¼ Centennial ~ pellet 8.0 » 7.7
    5 min 1 ¾ Palisades ~ pellet 7.3 » 5.5
    Flame out 2 Palisades ~ pellet 7.3 » 0.0

    Bitterness
    52.5 IBU

    Yeast
    Safale US-05 Dry Yeast

    I put the Victory in there when I reread everyone's comments.

    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    Btw, @frydogbrews The BJCP defines an English Pale Ale (ordinary bitter, special bitter and ESB) topping out at 50 IBUs, where American Pale Ales top out at 45 IBU. Both American and English IPAs start at 40 IBUs. That places this recipe solidly in the IPA category. Even without the bumped up FWH hops, it is still in between a Pale Ale and an IPA.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    CB - this looks really good. Curious on what color this is going to turn out to be? What's the SRM?
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    C_dubbs said:

    Btw, @frydogbrews The BJCP defines an English Pale Ale (ordinary bitter, special bitter and ESB) topping out at 50 IBUs, where American Pale Ales top out at 45 IBU. Both American and English IPAs start at 40 IBUs. That places this recipe solidly in the IPA category. Even without the bumped up FWH hops, it is still in between a Pale Ale and an IPA.


    that needs to be updated. there has been a sea change, that what leads to revolution.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    jlw said:

    CB - this looks really good. Curious on what color this is going to turn out to be? What's the SRM?


    6. I thought it might be a shade darker than that. What do you think about having the Victory and crystal 15? too much?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271

    C_dubbs said:

    Btw, @frydogbrews The BJCP defines an English Pale Ale (ordinary bitter, special bitter and ESB) topping out at 50 IBUs, where American Pale Ales top out at 45 IBU. Both American and English IPAs start at 40 IBUs. That places this recipe solidly in the IPA category. Even without the bumped up FWH hops, it is still in between a Pale Ale and an IPA.


    that needs to be updated. there has been a sea change, that what leads to revolution.

    Completely agree. What I referenced was the 2008 guidelines. I couldn't find anything newer than that.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    C_dubbs said:

    jlw said:

    CB - this looks really good. Curious on what color this is going to turn out to be? What's the SRM?


    6. I thought it might be a shade darker than that. What do you think about having the Victory and crystal 15? too much?


    I think it will be fine. I like dry IPA's and I also like sweet IPA's they both have their place. I think this one will be just fine it only accounts for 5% of the grist.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    jlw said:

    C_dubbs said:

    jlw said:

    CB - this looks really good. Curious on what color this is going to turn out to be? What's the SRM?


    6. I thought it might be a shade darker than that. What do you think about having the Victory and crystal 15? too much?

    I think it will be fine. I like dry IPA's and I also like sweet IPA's they both have their place. I think this one will be just fine it only accounts for 5% of the grist.

    Good. I'm leaving it as it then. I already have my shopping list. I'm not sure what I like most, I guess a sweeter IPA? What would Centennial IPA be? Or Southern Tier's 2XIPA?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    C_dubbs said:

    jlw said:

    C_dubbs said:

    jlw said:

    CB - this looks really good. Curious on what color this is going to turn out to be? What's the SRM?


    6. I thought it might be a shade darker than that. What do you think about having the Victory and crystal 15? too much?

    I think it will be fine. I like dry IPA's and I also like sweet IPA's they both have their place. I think this one will be just fine it only accounts for 5% of the grist.

    Good. I'm leaving it as it then. I already have my shopping list. I'm not sure what I like most, I guess a sweeter IPA? What would Centennial IPA be? Or Southern Tier's 2XIPA?


    It's been awhile since I had either of those buit I think they are both on the drier side. I wasn;t very clear in my previous post. I don;t think this will be sweet at all. Just as an example here is the Avery Maharaja Clone:

    It uses C120 and some victory.

    Boil Size: 6.93 gal
    Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
    Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
    Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
    Estimated OG: 1.089 SG
    Estimated Color: 10.5 SRM
    Estimated IBU: 90.7 IBUs
    Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.00 %
    Est Mash Efficiency: 92.7 %
    Boil Time: 60 Minutes

    Ingredients:
    ------------
    Amt Name Type # %/IBU
    15 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 93.8 %
    8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2 3.1 %
    8.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.1 %
    4.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
    2.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 64.1 IBUs
    2.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
    2.00 oz Crystal [3.50 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
    1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 30. Hop 5 26.5 IBUs
    2.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
    2.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 6 0.0 IBUs
    2.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35. Yeast 8 -
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Also, I just looked up the BYO Racer 5 Clone and it also uses 12oz of C15 and 8 oz of wheat and gets an SRM of 8.

    This will be a good APA/IPA
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    jlw said:


    It's been awhile since I had either of those buit I think they are both on the drier side. I wasn;t very clear in my previous post. I don;t think this will be sweet at all. Just as an example here is the Avery Maharaja Clone:

    It uses C120 and some victory.

    Boil Size: 6.93 gal
    Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
    Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
    Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
    Estimated OG: 1.089 SG
    Estimated Color: 10.5 SRM
    Estimated IBU: 90.7 IBUs
    Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.00 %
    Est Mash Efficiency: 92.7 %
    Boil Time: 60 Minutes

    Ingredients:
    ------------
    Amt Name Type # %/IBU
    15 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 93.8 %
    8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2 3.1 %
    8.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.1 %
    4.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
    2.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 64.1 IBUs
    2.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
    2.00 oz Crystal [3.50 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
    1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 30. Hop 5 26.5 IBUs
    2.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
    2.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 6 0.0 IBUs
    2.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35. Yeast 8 -


    Ah. Gotchya. I've never had Avery Maharaja...
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    jlw said:

    Also, I just looked up the BYO Racer 5 Clone and it also uses 12oz of C15 and 8 oz of wheat and gets an SRM of 8.

    This will be a good APA/IPA


    This is basically what I'm shooting for. Something that muddies the water between both of those but cannot be described as a double or imperial.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,824
    I'm not fond of the sweet ones .....
    I like a full malty background though ....
    Wish commercial brewers would not confuse malty with sweet .....
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,824
    What you have should be good
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    In my Maharaja post I used an incorrect word. I meant "Malty" not "Sweet". Haven't finished my coffee yet.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    ceannt said:

    I'm not fond of the sweet ones .....
    I like a full malty background though ....
    Wish commercial brewers would not confuse malty with sweet .....


    This this this.
    ceannt said:

    What you have should be good


    Good. I'm feeling pretty good about this now.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    I think I am going to brew an IPA this weekend. I need a recipe but I need to see what hops I have lying around. I have enough I should be able to do a hop bomb (i think).
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,626
    C_dubbs said:

    ceannt said:

    I'm not fond of the sweet ones .....
    I like a full malty background though ....
    Wish commercial brewers would not confuse malty with sweet .....


    This this this.
    ceannt said:

    What you have should be good


    Good. I'm feeling pretty good about this now.


    Get to brewin, boy!
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271

    C_dubbs said:

    ceannt said:

    I'm not fond of the sweet ones .....
    I like a full malty background though ....
    Wish commercial brewers would not confuse malty with sweet .....


    This this this.
    ceannt said:

    What you have should be good


    Good. I'm feeling pretty good about this now.


    Get to brewin, boy!

    It's looking like Monday. That's the nicest day of next week. So I may just have to man up and do it as soon as I get home in the morning. I'll sleep when I'm dead.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    ipa's should not be malty. not american ones anyway. the english can do as they please.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,824
    Not balanced towards malty no ..... but IPAs are outstanding if instead of throwing in a ton of crystal malts there is a richness from malt flavor to back up the aggressive hop profile ..... most commercial IPAs would be like drinking out of a hummingbird feeder if you took the hops out ..... just a touch of light munich or something does magic
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    I got the rest of the ingredients this morning. Monday morning brew time, weather permitting.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    ceannt said:

    Not balanced towards malty no ..... but IPAs are outstanding if instead of throwing in a ton of crystal malts there is a richness from malt flavor to back up the aggressive hop profile ..... most commercial IPAs would be like drinking out of a hummingbird feeder if you took the hops out ..... just a touch of light munich or something does magic


    i totally agree with all of this. you get a fuller flavor by laying off the sweetness and instead balancing with richness. there is a difference.


    ceannt
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,824

    ceannt said:

    Not balanced towards malty no ..... but IPAs are outstanding if instead of throwing in a ton of crystal malts there is a richness from malt flavor to back up the aggressive hop profile ..... most commercial IPAs would be like drinking out of a hummingbird feeder if you took the hops out ..... just a touch of light munich or something does magic


    i totally agree with all of this. you get a fuller flavor by laying off the sweetness and instead balancing with richness. there is a difference.



    Yup .... its not that difficult of a concept .... I will never understand why most of the "big boys" can't seem to grasp it
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    Doughing in...
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,626
    it's about time!
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,824
    C_dubbs said:

    Doughing in...



    I love the smell of mashing grain in the morning
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271

    it's about time!


    I napped. And now the weather is less crappy, so win!
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    I went with 152* mash on this one. Probably a degree or even two high for an IPA (shut it fry) but I don't want it too dry.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,626
    C_dubbs said:

    I went with 152* mash on this one. Probably a degree or even two high for an IPA (shut it fry) but I don't want it too dry.



    that's about where i like em.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271

    C_dubbs said:

    I went with 152* mash on this one. Probably a degree or even two high for an IPA (shut it fry) but I don't want it too dry.



    that's about where i like em.


    I'm using some DME, so hopefully that won't leave the FG too high. But I'm willing to risk it.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    I need to do one of those digital thingies. Or just a floating leave in thermometer. Those are uber cheap.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,626
    this thread needs pictures.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    so i split that off, then realized it was stupid, now your post about your fail is gone. oops.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    Here?
    FB_IMG_13545604271698218.jpg
    1920 x 2560 - 1004K
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,626
    looks like you're kettle is wearing a white dress shirt with a ridiculously thin blue tie.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,626
    GENTLEMEN!
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    Well. I don't have a clue what just happened.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    My Hop schedule looked like this

    1oz Mt. Hood 60 minutes
    1oz Cascade 60 minutes
    1oz Cascade 20 minutes
    1oz Palisade 20 minutes
    and here is where it gets really fun...
    Flame out...
    2.3oz Centennial
    1.7oz Palisade
    0.5oz Cascade
    0.5oz Mt. Hood

    I think. I had to baby sit the dang thing for the longest hot break ever, even then it never really calmed down. I got all flustered when I couldn't remember which addition was which since the packages didn't match exactly what I was using them for plus the weights didn't match what I thought they were. Plus I forgot the first wort hop, so I backed off on the 60 addition. At least it's beer.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    not yet its not.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    Mmk. This has been in primary for 20 days now. I'm going to pull a gravity sample and see what's the haps.
    If the gravity isn't down where it needs to be I'll probably pull the buckets up to a little warmer part of the house. But I also need to dry hops this stuff. I have 6 oz of palisades. I'm thinking 2oz in each fermenter for 7ish days?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    One other question... since it'll be a while (month or two, maybe longer than that) before I get to drinking the second half of this should I wait to dry hop that till then?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,317
    C_dubbs said:

    One other question... since it'll be a while (month or two, maybe longer than that) before I get to drinking the second half of this should I wait to dry hop that till then?



    Might be an opportunity to compare the difference between a beer that has been dry hopped for 7 days and one that has been dry hopped for 7 weeks. Sounds like a good experiment to me.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    Interesting thought... Dry hop the longer half colder to avoid grassy flavors? I should do some research around this since I am new to dry hopping period.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,317
    C_dubbs said:

    Interesting thought... Dry hop the longer half colder to avoid grassy flavors? I should do some research around this since I am new to dry hopping period.



    yes
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,317
    of course, post what you do and the results!
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    Lakewood said:

    of course, post what you do and the results!


    'course
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    C_dubbs said:

    Interesting thought... Dry hop the longer half colder to avoid grassy flavors? I should do some research around this since I am new to dry hopping period.


    i have done this experiment
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    one batch i dry hopped for 7 days and 14 days and one batch i dry hopped for 7 days and 21 days
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    the 21 days one was picking up some grassiness in a bad way.

    still totally drinkable, but glad i pulled them when i did

    (sorry about the 3 posts.....forgot where i was)
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    What temp was the beer in this experiment?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    55, 60 max
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,271
    FG 1.006. I think it's done.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    C_dubbs said:

    FG 1.006. I think it's done.



    I would guess so
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Is the airlock still bubbling? That's THE only way to tell when fermentation is done.
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    jlw said:

    Is the airlock still bubbling? That's THE only way to tell when fermentation is done.



    this.

    it should actually be our new motto