Tap issues
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    My guest tap is foaming my beer. It is a snake tap. The beer line leaks beer back into the keg maybe. The line gets air I it. Each beer is foamy, if your pour two, second is fine, but when when you wait it foams. You can see the air pockets in the beer line between pours. I switched the line to another tap, so it isn't the faucet. Where's the issue? In the tap itself? In a gasket? If so, where? Basically, it's allowing beer to drain from the beer line, but it must be back into the keg I guess, it isn't pooling in the keezer, isn't leaking outside, beer is carbonated. Thoughts?
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,690
    Line is getting too warm? Shorten or add glycol system.
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  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    The line does not leave the keezer, it is 9' long. It is the very small, semi rigid line. Same as all other lines that come from my ball locks, but this one just started having problems with this keg.
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,690
    Any hole would be a leak out, not in as it's under pressure, unless its inside the keg....
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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,068
    A temperature change in the line is the obvious cause of co2 coming out of solution in the line. If its the same elevation and line type and length as the rest then you can probably rule this one out.

    Switch your kegs around so you put a different keg on this line. I'll bet the problem follows the keg. The dip tube may have a pin hole in it somewhere letting co2 into the line. Or a bad inner gasket if it is that type. I have a couple that have an o-ring that seals diptube from the headspace if that makes since. I won't leak out but it sure will cause foamy pours.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,690
    It's freaking highlife, just chug it till it's gone.
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  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    Since you said its all the same temp then the answer is limited to this: the keg is carbed at a higher pressure (vol co2) than what you are keeping it at. If you lower the temp, the issue could go away, if you raise the serving pressure the issue may go away.

    What's happening is the co2 is going ou of solution while in the line, creating gas bubbles. You need to stop that from happening by balancing the pressure of the gas and solution. The two options above are not the only two approaches, alternately you could lower the vols of co2 in your beer by taking it off the gas and bleeding a little head pressure until it stabilizes at the same head pressure as your serving line.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    It's a snake keg so I don't know what's going on inside it. It is Sēance from Magic Hat. If its a keg problem, I can't do anything about it I guess.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    Your autocorrect is killing me... It's a Sanke Style keg.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    Lakewood said:

    Since you said its all the same temp then the answer is limited to this: the keg is carbed at a higher pressure (vol co2) than what you are keeping it at. If you lower the temp, the issue could go away, if you raise the serving pressure the issue may go away.

    What's happening is the co2 is going ou of solution while in the line, creating gas bubbles. You need to stop that from happening by balancing the pressure of the gas and solution. The two options above are not the only two approaches, alternately you could lower the vols of co2 in your beer by taking it off the gas and bleeding a little head pressure until it stabilizes at the same head pressure as your serving line.



    I am holding my serving pressure at 11 psi. I've had this keg tapped for 2 weeks, problem has been there the whole time I think. So you think I need to crank it up?
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    Lakewood said:

    Your autocorrect is killing me... It's a Sanke Style keg.



    Yea, sanke. Sorry.
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,690
    If lake is right, which is likely, then the problem will also go away as the carbonation reduces due to low pressure. How long has this been going on?
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  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    Dr_Jerryrigger said:

    If lake is right, which is likely, then the problem will also go away as the carbonation reduces due to low pressure. How long has this been going on?



    Two weeks, maybe as long as its been tapped. I don't recall
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    Dr_Jerryrigger said:

    If lake is right, which is likely, then the problem will also go away as the carbonation reduces due to low pressure. How long has this been going on?



    In a well conditioned beer it could take months for it to slowly equilibriate on its own. It would resolve itself pretty quick as you got down below 1/4 full though.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    Benvarine said:

    Lakewood said:

    Since you said its all the same temp then the answer is limited to this: the keg is carbed at a higher pressure (vol co2) than what you are keeping it at. If you lower the temp, the issue could go away, if you raise the serving pressure the issue may go away.

    What's happening is the co2 is going ou of solution while in the line, creating gas bubbles. You need to stop that from happening by balancing the pressure of the gas and solution. The two options above are not the only two approaches, alternately you could lower the vols of co2 in your beer by taking it off the gas and bleeding a little head pressure until it stabilizes at the same head pressure as your serving line.



    I am holding my serving pressure at 11 psi. I've had this keg tapped for 2 weeks, problem has been there the whole time I think. So you think I need to crank it up?


    Cranking it up a couple psi will likely cure the bubbles in the line, but it could cause foaming due to an aggressive pour.
    Its a balance. One thing you can do to help, is to make sure the line doesn't go up and down as it goes from the keg to the tap. Those whoop-d-dos with encourage foaming too.

    I'd probably set the regulator at 13psi and organize the line so it is always going either uphill or downhill
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    Lakewood said:

    Benvarine said:

    Lakewood said:

    Since you said its all the same temp then the answer is limited to this: the keg is carbed at a higher pressure (vol co2) than what you are keeping it at. If you lower the temp, the issue could go away, if you raise the serving pressure the issue may go away.

    What's happening is the co2 is going ou of solution while in the line, creating gas bubbles. You need to stop that from happening by balancing the pressure of the gas and solution. The two options above are not the only two approaches, alternately you could lower the vols of co2 in your beer by taking it off the gas and bleeding a little head pressure until it stabilizes at the same head pressure as your serving line.



    I am holding my serving pressure at 11 psi. I've had this keg tapped for 2 weeks, problem has been there the whole time I think. So you think I need to crank it up?


    Cranking it up a couple psi will likely cure the bubbles in the line, but it could cause foaming due to an aggressive pour.
    Its a balance. One thing you can do to help, is to make sure the line doesn't go up and down as it goes from the keg to the tap. Those whoop-d-dos with encourage foaming too.

    I'd probably set the regulator at 13psi and organize the line so it is always going either uphill or downhill


    I tried to straighten the lines, but they are rigid, so you can only straighten so much. I turned up to 13 psi. I'll see what happens.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,068
    Oh yeah I missed the Sanke part. Muh bad.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    C_B said:

    Oh yeah I missed the Sanke part. Muh bad.



    it's ok. just dont let it happen again
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    Didn't help. I turned it back down to 11 after two days. High spots on the curve hold air. It is either a bad keg or my tap has some seals going bad. I've used this for a couple years with many kegs and it has never happened. I'll probably wait until I swap this keg and see if the next one is better. If no better, I'll start replacing seals on the tap. I need a new tap, so I might just replace that
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    Bad tap seals leak out, not in.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,690
    Dr_Jerryrigger said:

    Any hole would be a leak out, not in, as it's under pressure, unless its inside the keg....



    Lakewood said:

    Bad tap seals leak out, not in.



    Full circle... Quicker than normal, odd, no one got sidetracked.
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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,068
    What I keep hanging up on is that it gets better after the first pour if you have consecutive pours? That nearly has to be pressure, line temp, or line elevation related. The only leak that could cause this and not a puddle would be a leak from the diptube back into the keg. But that would continue with each pour once the liquid level dropped below that hole.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,690
    If it was a dip tube leak it would have to be a very small one. I'm still thinking it could be an over carbed situation.
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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,068
    Dr_Jerryrigger said:

    If it was a dip tube leak it would have to be a very small one. I'm still thinking it could be an over carbed situation.


    Most likely.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    The carb has been the same for the past few kegs. All lines are the same, temp the same, etc. only difference is the keg itself. I had it turned up to 13 psi at 33F, I can't imagine turning up the co2 higher than that. Either a bad keg or something went wrong with the tap. Not sure what could go wrong with the tap to cause this.
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,690
    Have some empty cornies?
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  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    Yes. Are suggesting I empty this into one? It's a sanke keg, so I'd have to rig something up to transfer and honestly, I'm not that motivated.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,068
    Benvarine said:

    The carb has been the same for the past few kegs. All lines are the same, temp the same, etc. only difference is the keg itself. I had it turned up to 13 psi at 33F, I can't imagine turning up the co2 higher than that. Either a bad keg or something went wrong with the tap. Not sure what could go wrong with the tap to cause this.


    I suppose if some debris could be hung up in the tap or faucet? Maybe? Does it pour slow?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,690
    C_B said:

    Benvarine said:

    The carb has been the same for the past few kegs. All lines are the same, temp the same, etc. only difference is the keg itself. I had it turned up to 13 psi at 33F, I can't imagine turning up the co2 higher than that. Either a bad keg or something went wrong with the tap. Not sure what could go wrong with the tap to cause this.


    I suppose if some debris could be hung up in the tap or faucet? Maybe? Does it pour slow?


    I don't think even that would cause that problem.
    image
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,068
    Dr_Jerryrigger said:

    C_B said:

    Benvarine said:

    The carb has been the same for the past few kegs. All lines are the same, temp the same, etc. only difference is the keg itself. I had it turned up to 13 psi at 33F, I can't imagine turning up the co2 higher than that. Either a bad keg or something went wrong with the tap. Not sure what could go wrong with the tap to cause this.


    I suppose if some debris could be hung up in the tap or faucet? Maybe? Does it pour slow?


    I don't think even that would cause that problem.


    Yeah. I think you're right. I don't even know. Switch some stuff around and try that.

    Or, just drink the keg. Hit it. Hit it hard.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    The only things I can reasonaby attribute to this are:
    Over carbed beer
    Loops/high spots in line
    Variable temps btween line and keg
    Dirty or infected line
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,068
    Lakewood said:

    The only things I can reasonaby attribute to this are:
    1)Over carbed beer
    2)Loops/high spots in line
    3)Variable temps btween line and keg
    4)Dirty or infected line



    I added numbers. You're welcome.

    I agree with 1 and 4. 2 and 3 I think have been reasonably ruled out. Reasonably.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,690
    Or pin hole in dip tube.
    image
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    Dr_Jerryrigger said:

    Or pin hole in dip tube.



    could be. seem unlikely in a commercial sanke style keg, since the spear and down tube (no dip tube, dip tubes are in cornies) is made of a fairly thick walled stainless steel tubing.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,068
    Lakewood said:

    Dr_Jerryrigger said:

    Or pin hole in dip tube.



    could be. seem unlikely in a commercial sanke style keg, since the spear and down tube (no dip tube, dip tubes are in cornies) is made of a fairly thick walled stainless steel tubing.

    I suggested this early on when I thought it was a cornie. But even with this scenario it should be happening with every pour.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    Well, keg is blown. I'll replace this coming week and see if we repeat this discussion. For the sake of lost beer, I hope it's the keg.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    Benvarine said:

    Well, keg is blown. I'll replace this coming week and see if we repeat this discussion. For the sake of lost beer, I hope it's the keg.



    looking forward to the results of the next experiment
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    Doing it still. I tried a new tap, butterfly sanke tap. Tapped and poured a beer. After I shut off faucet, bubbles begin to arise from the tap at the keg into the line. Why the hell is this happening?
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,690
    New keg yet?
    image
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    Yes. New keg.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    Benvarine said:

    Doing it still. I tried a new tap, butterfly sanke tap. Tapped and poured a beer. After I shut off faucet, bubbles begin to arise from the tap at the keg into the line. Why the hell is this happening?



    take a picture?
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
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