Counter-Flow Chiller
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,732
    Here's a counter-flow heat exchanger design that works pretty durn well. I use it with a re-circulating pump to bring wort from the brew kettle through the inner piping run and return it back to the brew kettle. Doing it this way i can lower the bulk temperature of the wort below hop alpha acid isomerization temperature very quickly and get the most out of my late hop additions.
    IMG00049-20111212-2135.jpg
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    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,091
    I've asked this other places, but how many linear feet of chiller is there? Let's say just the part where the wort is jacketed. Not included the ends and elbows and such.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,732
    approx. 10 ft of total length, mabe 12, whatever i happened to have in my garage.

    if it was 10 ft that gives it about 188 sq in of contact surface area.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    There are plans for something similar in last months BYO.
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  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,732
    jeepinjeepin said:

    There are plans for something similar in last months BYO.



    Interesting I'll have to look for the article. This was built in Dec 2010.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,091
    Lakewood said:

    jeepinjeepin said:

    There are plans for something similar in last months BYO.



    Interesting I'll have to look for the article. This was built in Dec 2010.

    http://byo.com/component/k2/item/2849-double-pipe-wort-chiller-projects
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,692
    Lakewood said:

    approx. 10 ft of total length, mabe 12, whatever i happened to have in my garage.

    if it was 10 ft that gives it about 188 sq in of contact surface area.



    So it's half inch pipe?
    image
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,732
    Dr_Jerryrigger said:

    Lakewood said:

    approx. 10 ft of total length, mabe 12, whatever i happened to have in my garage.

    if it was 10 ft that gives it about 188 sq in of contact surface area.



    So it's half inch pipe?


    the inner pipe is 1/2, outer is 3/4
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,732
    they used pvc for the outer pipe, that works well and is cheaper. but only for a "cool" only application.

    I used copper over copper in my design because i have plans to someday add a heating element, reservoir and second pump to the system and use the outer tube to recirculate heated water or even oil, for a HERMS configuration. PVC wouldnt be able to hold up to the heat.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,091
    Lakewood said:

    they used pvc for the outer pipe, that works well and is cheaper. but only for a "cool" only application.

    I used copper over copper in my design because i have plans to someday add a heating element, reservoir and second pump to the system and use the outer tube to recirculate heated water or even oil, for a HERMS configuration. PVC wouldnt be able to hold up to the heat.



    That's why I didn't like PVC. I couldn't remember. Good call.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,732
    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    they used pvc for the outer pipe, that works well and is cheaper. but only for a "cool" only application.

    I used copper over copper in my design because i have plans to someday add a heating element, reservoir and second pump to the system and use the outer tube to recirculate heated water or even oil, for a HERMS configuration. PVC wouldnt be able to hold up to the heat.



    That's why I didn't like PVC. I couldn't remember. Good call.


    I like the use of silicone tubing to connect the pipe runs though, that's a nice touch and let's you run a brush through there to really clean it.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,091
    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    they used pvc for the outer pipe, that works well and is cheaper. but only for a "cool" only application.

    I used copper over copper in my design because i have plans to someday add a heating element, reservoir and second pump to the system and use the outer tube to recirculate heated water or even oil, for a HERMS configuration. PVC wouldnt be able to hold up to the heat.



    That's why I didn't like PVC. I couldn't remember. Good call.


    I like the use of silicone tubing to connect the pipe runs though, that's a nice touch and let's you run a brush through there to really clean it.


    It also saves a fair amount of money on fittings. Those little elbows are expensive.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,732
    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    they used pvc for the outer pipe, that works well and is cheaper. but only for a "cool" only application.

    I used copper over copper in my design because i have plans to someday add a heating element, reservoir and second pump to the system and use the outer tube to recirculate heated water or even oil, for a HERMS configuration. PVC wouldnt be able to hold up to the heat.



    That's why I didn't like PVC. I couldn't remember. Good call.


    I like the use of silicone tubing to connect the pipe runs though, that's a nice touch and let's you run a brush through there to really clean it.


    It also saves a fair amount of money on fittings. Those little elbows are expensive.


    Also true, but that tubing isn't cheap either. Not sure the cost difference.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,091
    I'm not sure what I was looking at while ago when I first priced what i thought this would cost but I estimated 150 based on the material list. I must have been planning to make a big one. Looks like I can get the material for 20' plus fitting for ~60 if I keep the runs long. That should be enough, right? Good lord I would think. And it has to be way more efficient than the POS immersion chiller I'm using now.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,091
    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    they used pvc for the outer pipe, that works well and is cheaper. but only for a "cool" only application.

    I used copper over copper in my design because i have plans to someday add a heating element, reservoir and second pump to the system and use the outer tube to recirculate heated water or even oil, for a HERMS configuration. PVC wouldnt be able to hold up to the heat.



    That's why I didn't like PVC. I couldn't remember. Good call.


    I like the use of silicone tubing to connect the pipe runs though, that's a nice touch and let's you run a brush through there to really clean it.


    It also saves a fair amount of money on fittings. Those little elbows are expensive.


    Also true, but that tubing isn't cheap either. Not sure the cost difference.


    The cheap grade of pipe is ~$1/ft for 1/2" and ~$1.40/ft for 3/4"
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,692
    If you pack the inside (wort tube) with chore boy scrubbing pads you can get a lot more cooling out of a given length.
    image
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,091
    Dr_Jerryrigger said:

    If you pack the inside (wort tube) with chore boy scrubbing pads you can get a lot more cooling out of a given length.



    That sounds like an infection waiting to happen.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,692
    C_B said:

    Dr_Jerryrigger said:

    If you pack the inside (wort tube) with chore boy scrubbing pads you can get a lot more cooling out of a given length.



    That sounds like an infection waiting to happen.


    Just run it for ten minutes without cooling water. And remove the packing between brews.
    image
  • JayrizzleJayrizzle
    Posts: 90,692
    You can reuse is, but some care is needed
    image
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,732
    C_B said:

    Dr_Jerryrigger said:

    If you pack the inside (wort tube) with chore boy scrubbing pads you can get a lot more cooling out of a given length.



    That sounds like an infection waiting to happen.


    I don't think it would wait if you forgot to remove it, but the open end design would allow it to be removed.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,091
    I'm going to build a heat exchanger this weekend. I think I'll get two 10' sticks of each diameter pipe and go from there. The question is how long do I want it? Longer run would be cheaper (less fittings) but a shorter run would increase efficiency slightly by causing turbulent flow through the fittings (slightly) and be easier to store/move around.

    I'm thinking 5'. (4) 5' runs.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,091
    Since I'm going to do the silcone hose on the ends draining should be a non issue. An even number of runs will put all of my connections on one end. That's handy.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,732
    C_B said:

    Since I'm going to do the silcone hose on the ends draining should be a non issue. An even number of runs will put all of my connections on one end. That's handy.



    post build pics!
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,091
    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Since I'm going to do the silcone hose on the ends draining should be a non issue. An even number of runs will put all of my connections on one end. That's handy.



    post build pics!

    I'll make a thread.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,732
    C_B said:

    I'm going to build a heat exchanger this weekend. I think I'll get two 10' sticks of each diameter pipe and go from there. The question is how long do I want it? Longer run would be cheaper (less fittings) but a shorter run would increase efficiency slightly by causing turbulent flow through the fittings (slightly) and be easier to store/move around.

    I'm thinking 5'. (4) 5' runs.



    mine is pretty short, but that was because i wanted to mount it on my brewrig as shown in the pic.

    i dont think it will make much of a different at the flow rates involve. the distance before you reach laminar flow will be really short at such low reynolds number.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,732
    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Since I'm going to do the silcone hose on the ends draining should be a non issue. An even number of runs will put all of my connections on one end. That's handy.



    post build pics!

    I'll make a thread.


    Woo!
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,091
    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    I'm going to build a heat exchanger this weekend. I think I'll get two 10' sticks of each diameter pipe and go from there. The question is how long do I want it? Longer run would be cheaper (less fittings) but a shorter run would increase efficiency slightly by causing turbulent flow through the fittings (slightly) and be easier to store/move around.

    I'm thinking 5'. (4) 5' runs.



    mine is pretty short, but that was because i wanted to mount it on my brewrig as shown in the pic.

    i dont think it will make much of a different at the flow rates involve. the distance before you reach laminar flow will be really short at such low reynolds number.


    When I'm not talking to an engineer, I'll reference that.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,091
    At 5' lengths I can cut it in half if the length chaps me. I should be able to cut it in half, trim off the outer pipe and assemble new fittings on the new ends. This could be accomplished with minimal disassembly I think.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,732
    C_B said:

    At 5' lengths I can cut it in half if the length chaps me. I should be able to cut it in half, trim off the outer pipe and assemble new fittings on the new ends. This could be accomplished with minimal disassembly I think.



    yeah, that wouldn't be bad. you'll lose a little jacketed length, but not much, maybe an inch per original pipe assembly.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
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