Help with JLW's Pumpkin Beer
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Out of inspiration from Scoob or maybe I'm stalking him I've decided to create a pumpkin beer as well.

    Let me know what think about the grain bill, hop useage and I'm not sure what Yeast I want to use. I was thinking a saison yeast to get some of the earthy tones but also think maybe a clean yeast to let all the flavors drive through might better. Also, I think I am going to mash this a little higher to get a good mouth feel.

    Here is the recipe

    Recipe: Pumpkin Ale
    Brewer: Headless Horseman
    Asst Brewer:
    Style: Imperial IPA
    TYPE: All Grain
    Taste: (30.0)

    Recipe Specifications
    --------------------------
    Boil Size: 6.93 gal
    Post Boil Volume: 5.72 gal
    Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
    Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
    Estimated OG: 1.078 SG
    Estimated Color: 11.1 SRM
    Estimated IBU: 108.5 IBUs
    Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
    Est Mash Efficiency: 82.5 %
    Boil Time: 60 Minutes

    Ingredients:
    ------------
    Amt Name Type # %/IBU
    11 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 1 75.9 %
    2 lbs Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 2 13.8 %
    8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.4 %
    1 lbs Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.9 %
    2.00 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 5 95.4 IBUs
    1.00 oz Sterling [7.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 8.4 IBUs
    1.00 oz Sterling [7.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 4.6 IBUs
    2.00 oz Sterling [7.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs


    Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
    Total Grain Weight: 14 lbs 8.0 oz
    ----------------------------
    Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
    Mash In Add 19.85 qt of water at 170.2 F 155.0 F 60 min

    Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.37gal, 3.59gal) of 168.0 F water
    Notes:
    ------
    5 lbs of pumpkin baked during mash
    Carmalize 1 gallon of first runnings
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    OK ..... don't change a thing
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    I vote for S-04
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    ceannt said:

    I vote for S-04



    yeah, I'm thinking this too.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    This beer sounds yummy ... with or without the pumpkin ... that's my kind of grain bill
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,786
    ceannt said:

    This beer sounds yummy ... with or without the pumpkin ... that's my kind of grain bill



    without the pumkin, yes.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,786
    ceannt said:

    OK ..... don't change a thing



    seconded.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    This may be a first for me. No grain bill changes. Time to lock this down! 8->
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    jlw said:

    This may be a first for me. No grain bill changes. Time to lock this down! 8->



    Yay!!!!
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    A couple technique questions:

    Can I just buy canned pumpkin?

    When I bake it, is the goal to dry it out so it can be included in the mash? What consistency am I looking for?
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    OK… use small pumkins… works way better than big ones… cut in half and scoop out the seeds.
    Bake pulp side down at 300 degrees for an hour or two… until they are slumping, tender and caramelized on the bottom.
    Don’t grease the baking sheet!!!!!!!
    After they have cooled, spoon out the pulp and add to the mash.
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    the canned stuff is crap
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    ceannt said:

    OK ..... don't change a thing



    WOW!

    Mind. Blown.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    Make this right now. RIGHT NOW.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    I have to agree here, don't change a thing,

    Also I concur with Kenny's gourd roasting process, it's spot on.

    I'm digging that hops schedule as well, loads of late additions are going to add big time goodness!

    The oats and squash are going to lend a nice silkiness to this one....

    Can I drink one now? Like RIGHT NOW?!?!?!
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Talked to my lhbs guy. When he makes his he does the exact same roasting process except he adds his to the boil at flame out or will add his a couple days into fermentation using a strainer bag. He said any of these methods will work but he seems to get a little more flavor adding during fermentation.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Ad thanks for all the feedback. I thought on the biscuit malt it give it a little bit of a pie crust flavor. Maybe not though.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    this sounds really good.

    I'm thinking get the best of both worlds with the punkin' 3 lbs pulp in the mash, 2 lbs in the fermenter.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Lakewood said:

    this sounds really good.

    I'm thinking get the best of both worlds with the punkin' 3 lbs pulp in the mash, 2 lbs in the fermenter.


    I'm thinking about doing some combination of the three.

    Guess what? I can't find pumpkin yet. No whole ones and none in cans yet at the store. I have the ingredients sitting here looking at me but might have to put the brew day on hold for a few weeks.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Oh that stinks ...... try a farm market ... all else fails ... just get a butternut squash ... tastes pretty much the same in the end
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    ceannt said:

    Oh that stinks ...... try a farm market ... all else fails ... just get a butternut squash ... tastes pretty much the same in the end



    this is truth, just rock some butternut squash
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Brewing today!
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    @ceannt @scoob refresh my memory. Boiling first runnings, I am doing this while the mash and boil are going and I ntegrate back into the beer toward the end of the boil?

    Also, would a decoction add to this or is it a waste of time for this beer?
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    I boil the first runnings during the first sparge rest ...
    Yeah ... keep boiling what you have until it thickens ... kind of a Scottish ale decoction
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Booo...67% efficiency. Actually raises a question, do you get less efficiency with higher mash temps?
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Took 1st runnings and boiled down to syrup consistency added in with 5 min to go in the boil. Baked pumpkin with a just a little bit of cinnamon sprinkled on top and baked for two hours. Added 1/2 with 5 min in the boil and will added the other 1/2 a few days into fermentation. Total pumpkin will be 5 lbs.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,786
    jlw said:

    Booo...67% efficiency. Actually raises a question, do you get less efficiency with higher mash temps?



    shouldn't.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    FromZwolle said:

    jlw said:

    Booo...67% efficiency. Actually raises a question, do you get less efficiency with higher mash temps?



    shouldn't.

    This.

    But... I think higher mashes convert slower? So if other factors are out of whack a higher mash temp could conceivably reduce efficiency. Although, it really should be fully converted within 60 minutes. Someone please verify or strike this down.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    It will convert a little slower .... but an hour is plenty .... how often did you stir?
    And ... how long did you rest your sparges?
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    ceannt said:

    I boil the first runnings during the first sparge rest ...
    Yeah ... keep boiling what you have until it thickens ... kind of a Scottish ale decoction



    Yes,this is my basic process, I boil the first runnings down while I sparge rest, then I collect some of the sparge runnings in my turkey fryer pot (where I do my caramelization in) to mix so I can easily add back into the keggle where I do my actual boil.

    It works great with my equipment, a bit of extra work perhaps with multiple boiling vessels but it allows me to sparge and even begin my boil if the caramelization isn't quite done by the time I have collected my preboil volume.
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    ceannt said:

    It will convert a little slower .... but an hour is plenty .... how often did you stir?
    And ... how long did you rest your sparges?



    This!!

    Did you mill your own grain or was it a LHBS crush?

    I recall a thread somewhere on here on improving efficiency. :D
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Stirred twice at 15 min an at 30. Then let each sparge for 30 min with a stir at 15 min.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    This is my normal process and usually get 75%+ eff.
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    So is it ready to drink yet?
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    scoob said:

    So is it ready to drink yet?



    I wish. Cause when I added the pumpkin it smelled incredible.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,786
    C_B said:

    FromZwolle said:

    jlw said:

    Booo...67% efficiency. Actually raises a question, do you get less efficiency with higher mash temps?



    shouldn't.

    This.

    But... I think higher mashes convert slower? So if other factors are out of whack a higher mash temp could conceivably reduce efficiency. Although, it really should be fully converted within 60 minutes. Someone please verify or strike this down.


    warmer mashes convert faster. way faster. heat+enzymes=party time. until you get towards the top end of their activity zone, then it slows down considerably.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Yeah .... but its converting to mostly non fermentables ..... takes a little longer to break those long chains down
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    The reason for mashing high is to have more of them long chains for more body ..... but you do want the short ones too for alcohol ..
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,786
    ceannt said:

    Yeah .... but its converting to mostly non fermentables ..... takes a little longer to break those long chains down



    that's why i don't mash out when i use the higher temps. gives the wort another 15-20 minutes to get where i want it.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    This beer is chugging along. Probably add the other 1/2 of the pumpkin tomorrow.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    I added the pumpkin to primary last night. Anyone have any idea how long I should leave it in there?
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    I have only heard of adding to the mash .... but I assume that it wouldn't be any different from any other fruit
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    I've never added fruit before. So how long?
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,786
    jlw said:

    I've never added fruit before. So how long?



    around two weeks should be plenty.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    FromZwolle said:

    jlw said:

    I've never added fruit before. So how long?



    around two weeks should be plenty.


    This .... make darn sure none of it sticks out of the wort and dries ... or you will get mold
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    ceannt said:

    FromZwolle said:

    jlw said:

    I've never added fruit before. So how long?



    around two weeks should be plenty.


    This .... make darn sure none of it sticks out of the wort and dries ... or you will get mold


    Ill check it tonight I think it sank right to the bottom.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    jlw said:

    ceannt said:

    FromZwolle said:

    jlw said:

    I've never added fruit before. So how long?



    around two weeks should be plenty.


    This .... make darn sure none of it sticks out of the wort and dries ... or you will get mold


    Ill check it tonight I think it sank right to the bottom.


    Good
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 122,708
    any progress?
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    Last weekend I moved the beer from primary to secondary and removed the bag of pumpkin. Lost a lot of beer to the pumpkin and trub.

    I went ahead and took a gravity sample and the beer tastes pretty incredible green. Can't wait to bottle this one.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,786
    how much did the pumpkin come through?
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    FromZwolle said:

    how much did the pumpkin come through?



    A lot came through. I don't think its like drinking pumpkin pie strong but its definitely there and I would guess it will fade with a little age.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,454
    How would you guys carb this beer? I was thinking enough for a nice thick head?
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 89,069
    jlw said:

    How would you guys carb this beer? I was thinking enough for a nice thick head?



    Gotta have a nice head on this one. I would say medium-high. Not Hefe high, but definitely more than you do most malty beers.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    C_B said:

    jlw said:

    How would you guys carb this beer? I was thinking enough for a nice thick head?



    Gotta have a nice head on this one. I would say medium-high. Not Hefe high, but definitely more than you do most malty beers.


    Gotta agree with this
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
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