Interesting. I've never made a extract beer (unless you count starters I've drank), but it's on my things I should do list.

I went to AG for the very reason ceannt went to AG. All about the control.

FromZwolle said:

jlw said:

I went to AG for the very reason ceannt went to AG. All about the control.

and the cost. extract is pricey!

There is that too

Continued:

Look into the process used to brew the beer, and why this practice was used. You may not be able to reproduce the process exactly, but you can sure mimic the effects that the original process would have had on the finished beer. A good example of this is the decoction mash used in many German beers…. They didn’t have thermometers…. And a decoction mash is an ideal way to control temperature… the malt profile it develops had nothing to do with why they brewed this way…. but sure is a wonderful side effect. They had the same problem in England, but instead of a decoction, they added a known quantity of boiling water to a known quantity of water straight from a spring or a rain barrel…. and did a single infusion mash. I always wondered why most Belgian beers (in particular the Trappist ones) did not employ a decoction mash…. Until I “did the research”…. And found out that Belgian brewing was highly influenced by Scottish brewers (way back in the Middle Ages)…. not so much by the Germans…. Interesting stuff. It was very common practice in England to do Parti guile brewing (why the Brown Porter was originally called “entire guile”)…. They would use the first runnings to make a strong ale, the second runnings to make a “normal” session strength ale, and the third runnings to make “small beer” (the Bud Light of the day) so it is not a bad idea to attempt to mimic the results of this and adapt your brewing practices to account for the effects. One really cool old practice for very strong ales, like Barleywine, was to take the first runnings and enough of the second to equal in total the volume used for the strike water…. Heat it up to strike water temperature, and use it to dough in a fresh batch of grain…. You can get a crazy high gravity without the kettle caramelazation from a very, very (did I say very?) long boil to get to the desired gravity. Made often with only Pale malt, these beers were (are) simply phenomenal… and would fall into the “snooty rich people” category…. (of course the remaining second and the third runnings went into smaller beers to give to the hired help, they didn’t waste anything). Surprisingly, most of the old arcane methods are not that difficult to mimic by the homebrewer with minimal equipment, it just takes some creativity, serious thought, and the guts to experiment.

I know all this seems like an awful lot of effort, but it can be a lot of fun, makes a huge difference in developing recipes, and greatly increases your appreciation for a beer when you sit down to pour one.....

Old brewing texts are the best..... if you can find them.... the internet is a wonderful thing... if you look hard enough you can find most anything..... years ago my local library had a very old book on cooking, it had a whole chapter on brewing...

Cool about your "re-invention".... yep, there is very little we can do that is truly "new".... with over 9000 years of brewing history, there is a pretty good chance that someone somewhere "been there, done that"......

A lot of the earlier American brews were probably pretty nasty....... why most Americans back then drank Cider..... or ran it through a still.....
You can carb a beer fairly effectively by just plugging up the bung at the right time... don't even need to add more fermentables..... all a matter of timing.
Most texts have some really vauge stuff in regards to recipes.... and measurments can get very strange.... hops would be dry... variety is harder... depending on where they were, and when... at that time period, would be either an English cultivar, or a cross with native strains.... more or less like a Cluster.

ceannt said:

Clones?:
I don’t brew clones…. Never had the desire too. If I wanted something, I would just go out and buy it. When I drink a commercial beer, I have a difficult time enjoying for what it is…. I find myself looking for ways to improve it. If I find a beer that I like, instead of trying to clone it, I will brew the style focusing on the characteristics that I liked in the commercial beer, and cutting back on anything that I didn’t. I will also add anything that I think would improve on it.
I have known guys that are almost obsessed with cloning. And consider a batch a failure if it isn’t right on the money identical. One such person really amused me once by expressing absolute failure over a clone attempt that turned out to be far better than the beer he was cloning……. How, I repeat how, is brewing a better beer…… a failure????
I know that clones can be viewed as a “test” of a brewers prowess….. but seriously…. So is just brewing a really good beer that nobody else has ever made. I think that imagination and creativity, and the skill to apply and execute it are a far greater test.

One of the best compliments I have ever received came from a buddy of mine. He gave me a call after trying a new beer in a bar that has a very extensive beer list…. He raved about how good the beer was. Then he said “There was something about it, not sure what, but it just tasted like something that you would brew.”

When I first started brewing I was all about the clones. As I discovered more about brewing the more I wanted to make my own recipes. Now I have no desire to clone anymore. Sometimes when I am thinking about a new beer I am devising I may identify a commercial version that I like the color on or the body or the hop profile and use that as my basis for a new beer. Not with the intent of cloning but rather the idea.

I started wanting to clone also. But it was more about not knowing what I liked. I would find a good commercial beer and want to make that because it was yummy. Now that I know I can make good beer that can stand on its own, I could care less about cloning. And I love being able to toss some 'tude at someone when they ask if I can make something like fill-in-the-blank commercial beer.

Dr_Jerryrigger said:

....... but most people posting clones seem to not know what they are doing.

I have also noticed that......

Good tips and observations though!

Just thought of this ..... the HVAC guys are soldering out in the hall........

There is something in copper that yeast needs .... helps late in the fermentation process during the "clean up" stage.
If you use an immersion chiller, you are good to go. But if not .....
Back when I did the ice bath white trash chill method I used to toss a 3/4 copper elbow in my boil pot.....

Dr_Jerryrigger said:

Huh, I think I'll toss in my two cents... into my carboy that is.

Hah..... cept pennies ain't really copper .... and you need to boil ..... still good for a laugh ..

SeaBee said:

I've read this somewhere before... But forgot about it until just now. What happens if you don't have any copper? I use a copper IC now, but the first couple batches were ice bath and no copper in the pot.

Nothing real bad.... and no difference if the beer is racked to secondary after a week .... or something silly like that. But gives the yeast nutrients late in the game .... and helps minimize the potential of off flavors from the yeast.