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Off Flavors
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    Brewed the orange blossom kolsh again. Day two the air lock blew off, forgot to use blow off tube. I cleaned, reattached and hoped for the best. Kegged last night and tasted. Has an alcohol taste, sort of cidery. Not great, and nothing like the last batch. This one is much more clear however. There was a layer of fine sediment on the bottom and another layer of larger sediment on that. Sort of like little round, tube like sediment. Weird. What do you think? Infected? I put on gas to see what happens.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 46,781
    infection, maybe. but you'd have to wait for a while and see if the off flavor gets any worse. right now it could just be the product of a ferment that was a little too aggressive.
    "Oh, you were serious? I was drunk."-C_B
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    I used a starter and fermented at 66F. I was looking for cooler, but last time it was warmer.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 46,781
    the beer itself was at 66 or the ambient temp?
    "Oh, you were serious? I was drunk."-C_B
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    The carboy thermometer read 66. It was in my converted fridge ferm chamber.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 48,259
    How long did you leave it in Primary?
    In wine there is wisdom.
    In beer there is freedom.
    In water there is bacteria.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417

    infection, maybe. but you'd have to wait for a while and see if the off flavor gets any worse. right now it could just be the product of a ferment that was a little too aggressive.


    I wouldn't jump to infection just yet. It may just take a little longer for the flavors to meld. Age heals a lot of mistakes in brewing. I wouldn't worry. Also if your carboy thermometer read 66* I would guess actual fermentation temps were a little higher.
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    ceannt said:

    How long did you leave it in Primary?



    I'm too lazy to go get my notes now, but between three-four weeks. Only in primary, I gave up racking. I started at 1.062, finished at 1.010.
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    jlw said:

    infection, maybe. but you'd have to wait for a while and see if the off flavor gets any worse. right now it could just be the product of a ferment that was a little too aggressive.


    I wouldn't jump to infection just yet. It may just take a little longer for the flavors to meld. Age heals a lot of mistakes in brewing. I wouldn't worry. Also if your carboy thermometer read 66* I would guess actual fermentation temps were a little higher.


    My concern with that is the last time I brewed it I didn't have these flavored at kegging. All was the same except for the blown air lock.
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    jlw said:

    infection, maybe. but you'd have to wait for a while and see if the off flavor gets any worse. right now it could just be the product of a ferment that was a little too aggressive.


    I wouldn't jump to infection just yet. It may just take a little longer for the flavors to meld. Age heals a lot of mistakes in brewing. I wouldn't worry. Also if your carboy thermometer read 66* I would guess actual fermentation temps were a little higher.


    My concern with that is the last time I brewed it I didn't have these flavored at kegging. All was the same except for the blown air lock.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 46,781
    the clarity of the beer, while by no means definitive, makes me feel much less inclined to think infection. *most* infections have the opposite effect on the clarity.
    "Oh, you were serious? I was drunk."-C_B
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,155

    the clarity of the beer, while by no means definitive, makes me feel much less inclined to think infection. *most* infections have the opposite effect on the clarity.



    This was my thought as well. Of course you can bottle it and send it all to me just to be safe.

    In all seriousness, blown airlock and hot alcohol flavors are indicators of a hot/fast ferment, not really of an infection.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    The last time I brewed it, I think it was warmer, but I could be wrong. It was before I had a chamber.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,155
    Benvarine said:

    The last time I brewed it, I think it was warmer, but I could be wrong. It was before I had a chamber.


    There are lots of factors that play into the fermentation pace. A larger O2 load or nutrient balance could make the yeast work faster and create more waste heat than the last go.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    Benvarine said:

    The last time I brewed it, I think it was warmer, but I could be wrong. It was before I had a chamber.



    are you using a thermowell and temp controller? If not you may want to look into the investment.
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    I've heard on an episode on the BN, the difference between the tape thermometer and a thermowell is around 0.5F. Seems pretty minute.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    Benvarine said:

    I've heard on an episode on the BN, the difference between the tape thermometer and a thermowell is around 0.5F. Seems pretty minute.



    interesting. I have read it can vary by degrees.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,155
    jlw said:

    Benvarine said:

    I've heard on an episode on the BN, the difference between the tape thermometer and a thermowell is around 0.5F. Seems pretty minute.



    interesting. I have read it can vary by degrees.


    It's gonna depend on the size/shape of the ferm vessel but I would think it could be a degree or two during peak fermentation. The difference between the air temp in the chamber and the wort temp could be a lot more than that. I'd put money on 5 degrees easy during peak fermentation.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    Lakewood said:

    jlw said:

    Benvarine said:

    I've heard on an episode on the BN, the difference between the tape thermometer and a thermowell is around 0.5F. Seems pretty minute.



    interesting. I have read it can vary by degrees.


    It's gonna depend on the size/shape of the ferm vessel but I would think it could be a degree or two during peak fermentation. The difference between the air temp in the chamber and the wort temp could be a lot more than that. I'd put money on 5 degrees easy during peak fermentation.


    this is what I'm thinking as well. @lakewood we should do a study with folks that use temp control and a thermowell and record actual versus ambient.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,155
    @everyone (wouldn't it be cool if that worked) who has a thermowell in their fermenters around here?
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    @everyone

    what is a thermowell?
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    During peak ferment, the wort/beer is churning like crazy. I would think the temp is pretty consistent throughout.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,321
    Lakewood said:

    @everyone (wouldn't it be cool if that worked) who has a thermowell in their fermenters around here?


    That would rock. And I don't, but I will with a ferm chamber.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,321
    Benvarine said:

    During peak ferment, the wort/beer is churning like crazy. I would think the temp is pretty consistent throughout.



    Well sure. But a crystal strip thermometer on the OUTSIDE of the fermenter would vary from the exact center of the vessel. How much is arguable. I expect up to 5 degrees. But I smell an experiment.....
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417

    @everyone

    what is a thermowell?



    Thermowell is a stainless tube you drop into the wort then a temp probe inside of it that is connected to you temp controller. So your ferm chamber is maintaining a temp based on the temp of the fermenting beer not ambient.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    I'm going to start keeping data on both temps starting with next beer.