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Soy-soon recipe (saison)
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 46,373
    I just received a sachet of http://www.danstaryeast.com/products/belle-saison-yeast , so I'm looking to try my hand at brewing a nice saison. There are already a couple good looking recipes posted, but I'd like to get a better understanding of the style.

    From the bjcp :-q descriptions, it looks as though I can just toss whatever I want in the fermenter and call it a saison, so that's zero help. I'll keep my eyes open for commercial versions to try, but I'd like to hear some opinions on this style.

    For those of you that enjoy the style, what is it that you like?
    "Oh, you were serious? I was drunk."-C_B
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 46,373
    After I come up with a good recipe for a saison, I'd love to brew something else with the yeast. Something off the wall, similar to how dampfbier is brewed and I'm open to any suggestions on that idea as well.
    "Oh, you were serious? I was drunk."-C_B
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,410
    Here is my favorite..

    Recipe Specifications
    --------------------------
    Boil Size: 6.93 gal
    Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
    Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
    Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
    Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
    Estimated Color: 6.3 SRM
    Estimated IBU: 33.4 IBUs
    Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
    Est Mash Efficiency: 81.8 %
    Boil Time: 60 Minutes

    Ingredients:
    ------------
    Amt Name Type # %/IBU
    9 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 69.2 %
    3 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 23.1 %
    1 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 3 7.7 %
    1.75 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 23.6 IBUs
    2.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
    1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 20.0 mi Hop 5 9.8 IBUs
    1.10 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 6 -
    1.0 pkg French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) [50.00 Yeast 7 -


    Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
    Total Grain Weight: 13 lbs
    ----------------------------
    Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
    Mash In Add 16.25 qt of water at 162.9 F 148.0 F 90 min

    Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (1.09gal, 3.59gal) of 168.0 F water
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,410
    Here is another. Althought I like it less, mainly becuase it turned out very sweet. I loud like to try again and see if I did something wrong in the brew process.

    Boil Size: 8.05 gal
    Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
    Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
    Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
    Estimated OG: 1.079 SG
    Estimated Color: 26.6 SRM
    Estimated IBU: 32.0 IBUs
    Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
    Est Mash Efficiency: 82.7 %
    Boil Time: 90 Minutes

    Ingredients:
    ------------
    Amt Name Type # %/IBU
    11 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 74.7 %
    9.6 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.9 %
    1 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 6.5 %
    6.4 oz Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 4 2.6 %
    6.4 oz Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.6 %
    4.0 oz Carafa I (337.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.6 %
    8.0 oz Brown Sugar, Light (8.0 SRM) Sugar 8 3.2 %
    12.0 oz Candi Sugar, Dark (275.0 SRM) Sugar 7 4.9 %
    1.75 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 60.0 mi Hop 9 27.6 IBUs
    0.63 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 10 4.4 IBUs
    0.11 oz Cinnamon Stick (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 11 -
    1.10 mg Vanilla Bean (Secondary 0.0 mins) Spice 12 -


    Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
    Total Grain Weight: 15 lbs 6.4 oz
    ----------------------------
    Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
    Mash In Add 19.40 qt of water at 159.2 F 149.0 F 60 min

    Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (1.00gal, 4.15gal) of 168.0 F water
    Notes:
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 46,373
    I think I'd like the second one more for a crisp refreshing summer time type deal.
    "Oh, you were serious? I was drunk."-C_B
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 46,373
    what are your thoughts on rye? it seems like rye would fit in well with what the yeast is supposed to put out.
    "Oh, you were serious? I was drunk."-C_B
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,410
    I think rye would be great in a saison. One of the cool things about saison's is they are pretty open to interpretation. Saison's I would imagine were brewed with whatever the common grains were on the farm. The farm hands took these beers into the field for nourishment and refreshment. I could very well see a farmer brewing a saison with rye becuase he had it on hand. The original saison's were probably only 2 to 3 % abv. @azscoob also has a saison that you should check out.

    I'm not familiar with the yeast you are going to use but many siason yeasts are able to talerate high fermentation temps. Those high temps are what gives the saison it's funky characteristics. Based on the description their site you would want to start this beer at kind of normal temps and then let run to whatever temp it goes to. I use 3711 and it will ferment up into the upper 80's. Also, these beers are dry and should get down to 1.000 to 1.005 range easily.

    The first is what I call a summer beer very crisp, light and with a good amount of funk. the second is very dark beer and very fruity.

    Whatever you end up brewing my recommendation would be keep the recipe simple and let the yeast drive the flavor of the beer.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 46,373
    jlw said:


    I'm not familiar with the yeast you are going to use but many siason yeasts are able to talerate high fermentation temps. Those high temps are what gives the saison it's funky characteristics. Based on the description their site you would want to start this beer at kind of normal temps and then let run to whatever temp it goes to. I use 3711 and it will ferment up into the upper 80's. Also, these beers are dry and should get down to 1.000 to 1.005 range easily.



    neither am i. it's a new dry yeast.
    "Oh, you were serious? I was drunk."-C_B
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    i don't care for it because its not the type of thing that i like, but schlafly's saison was a gold medal somewhere and is frequently heralded as an excellent example of a farmhouse style saison. next time you (or anyone you know) is an hour south of where you live, have them pick it up. only available in the fall though, ha!
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    Ow of my favorite beers, I love the spice the yeast imparts, I also love the fact that it is nice to brew in the fact that its a mustgo type beer, as in everything random in your brew closet that "must go" would likely fit in the style of beer, mine has rolled oats, honey, a few dregs of grains I had when designing the beer, it's a very resilient style that hardens to a day when beer was a staple of life, not a fancy beverage.
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    Admittedly I am not a Saisonist by trade, but when I think saison, spicey notes comes to mind, like very subtle black pepper or rye. Also lemon. I think if I were to try a saison recipe I would definitely use rye in it, and probably Sorachi Ace hops.
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 101,766
    I have had a few saison "style" beers.

    They have all been pretty different from each other, but the yeast profile is decidedly un-clean.

    I'm not a huge fan of the style, I find my mistakes end up tasting a lot like a commercial saison, so I often have too much of it on-hand.

    But the bottom line is BJCP is right, you could probably dump the contents of any loose grain scraps in a mashtun and brew a saison.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    Evan_B said:

    Admittedly I am not a Saisonist by trade, but when I think saison, spicey notes comes to mind, like very subtle black pepper or rye. Also lemon. I think if I were to try a saison recipe I would definitely use rye in it, and probably Sorachi Ace hops.



    Odd, my saison is subtle black pepper, and is brewed with sorachi ace.
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    azscoob said:

    Evan_B said:

    Admittedly I am not a Saisonist by trade, but when I think saison, spicey notes comes to mind, like very subtle black pepper or rye. Also lemon. I think if I were to try a saison recipe I would definitely use rye in it, and probably Sorachi Ace hops.



    Odd, my saison is subtle black pepper, and is brewed with sorachi ace.


    Maybe it's a sign I am slowly converting to saisonism
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 101,766
    Evan_B said:

    azscoob said:

    Evan_B said:

    Admittedly I am not a Saisonist by trade, but when I think saison, spicey notes comes to mind, like very subtle black pepper or rye. Also lemon. I think if I were to try a saison recipe I would definitely use rye in it, and probably Sorachi Ace hops.



    Odd, my saison is subtle black pepper, and is brewed with sorachi ace.


    Maybe it's a sign I am slowly converting to saisonism


    careful, it's a slippery slope. soon you will find yourself searching for horses with sweaty blankets.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    azscoob said:

    Evan_B said:

    Admittedly I am not a Saisonist by trade, but when I think saison, spicey notes comes to mind, like very subtle black pepper or rye. Also lemon. I think if I were to try a saison recipe I would definitely use rye in it, and probably Sorachi Ace hops.



    Odd, my saison is subtle black pepper, and is brewed with sorachi ace.


    Maybe it's a sign I am slowly converting to saisonism


    careful, it's a slippery slope. soon you will find yourself searching for horses with sweaty blankets.


    Ha!
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    azscoob said:

    Evan_B said:

    Admittedly I am not a Saisonist by trade, but when I think saison, spicey notes comes to mind, like very subtle black pepper or rye. Also lemon. I think if I were to try a saison recipe I would definitely use rye in it, and probably Sorachi Ace hops.



    Odd, my saison is subtle black pepper, and is brewed with sorachi ace.


    Maybe it's a sign I am slowly converting to saisonism


    careful, it's a slippery slope. soon you will find yourself searching for horses with sweaty blankets.


    blech
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,410
    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    azscoob said:

    Evan_B said:

    Admittedly I am not a Saisonist by trade, but when I think saison, spicey notes comes to mind, like very subtle black pepper or rye. Also lemon. I think if I were to try a saison recipe I would definitely use rye in it, and probably Sorachi Ace hops.



    Odd, my saison is subtle black pepper, and is brewed with sorachi ace.


    Maybe it's a sign I am slowly converting to saisonism


    careful, it's a slippery slope. soon you will find yourself searching for horses with sweaty blankets.


    you speak of this as if there is something wrong with it?
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 101,766
    jlw said:

    Lakewood said:

    Evan_B said:

    azscoob said:

    Evan_B said:

    Admittedly I am not a Saisonist by trade, but when I think saison, spicey notes comes to mind, like very subtle black pepper or rye. Also lemon. I think if I were to try a saison recipe I would definitely use rye in it, and probably Sorachi Ace hops.



    Odd, my saison is subtle black pepper, and is brewed with sorachi ace.


    Maybe it's a sign I am slowly converting to saisonism


    careful, it's a slippery slope. soon you will find yourself searching for horses with sweaty blankets.


    you speak of this as if there is something wrong with it?


    ;) not at all
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    I'm so so on Saison. For a while most I had were bleh. Then I tried one from a local, Ferguson Brewing Co, it was awesome. I also love the Bier de Garde from Schlafly, it's awesome, not Saison, but they are close, so worthy of mention.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,410
    Benvarine said:

    I'm so so on Saison. For a while most I had were bleh. Then I tried one from a local, Ferguson Brewing Co, it was awesome. I also love the Bier de Garde from Schlafly, it's awesome, not Saison, but they are close, so worthy of mention.



    That's right. Once you go say-soon. You should check out a couple of other commercial versions like Saison Dupont. That one is a classic example.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 46,373
    I'm steering the latest soysoon convo into here before Lake bans us all for having legitimate conversations in the shady recesses of the site.
    "Oh, you were serious? I was drunk."-C_B
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 46,373
    I'm really getting interested in these beers again, and I want to give it a go this weekend.
    "Oh, you were serious? I was drunk."-C_B
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 46,373
    I've also got about 6-7 pounds of munich and a couple pounds of vienna malt i'd like to get rid of before I restock the grain stores.
    "Oh, you were serious? I was drunk."-C_B
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 46,373
    So I was thinking of using that as my base, and adding a touch of roasted malts, and a little special b to make a nice dark saison.

    Mash around 150, as per Jlw's suggestion to get it nice and crisp.
    "Oh, you were serious? I was drunk."-C_B
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 46,373
    now what to do about hops? first wort, 60 minutes only, maybe a late charge?
    "Oh, you were serious? I was drunk."-C_B