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Counterflow Chiller Question/Problem
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    I used my CF chiller for the first time on my George Washington Zombie Killer. Anyway, I transferred to secondary to dry hop and this beer was the cloudiest beer I have had in a long time. I know using the CF I transferred a lot of trub and I guess that all still needs to settle out. Usually 3 weeks of primary and my beers are clear so I am hoping it settles out while the dry hop is going on. If not I guess I could transfer to a glass carboy and cold crash?

    Anyone have this problem using a CF? It fermented fairly cold 65* and when I pulled it out of the ferm chamber the temp read 56*.

    Thanks in advance for help/suggestions.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 48,472
    I figured that beer would be so dark you couldn't tell it was cloudy ..... gravity should help you out a good bit. Never used a CF ...so I'm no help at all...
    In wine there is wisdom.
    In beer there is freedom.
    In water there is bacteria.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Did you pull the wort out of the kettle a different way? I don't think using a CFC alone will make a beer cloudy...
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    Did you use a pump? A pump can cut up the hot break material into small strings of protien that have a hard time settling out. Hard time = could take years
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    Lakewood said:

    Did you use a pump? A pump can cut up the hot break material into small strings of protien that have a hard time settling out. Hard time = could take years



    Oh snap! I did use a pump. This beer is brown and looks like muddy water. Looks gross. Taste is ok. I'm going to go crack it open and see if it looks any better today.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    There is an interesting conversation about whirlpooling and how to make it effective somewhere here.... Most of the conversation was about pumps potentially making the problem worse. Let me see if I can find it.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    CB said:

    There is an interesting conversation about whirlpooling and how to make it effective somewhere here.... Most of the conversation was about pumps potentially making the problem worse. Let me see if I can find it.


    Here it is. Start with post number 3 http://www.homebrewforums.net/discussion/529/why-won039t-this-work-once#Item_30


    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    Interesting information indeed. Thanks CB for posting.

    I guess I am starting to think about how do I use the the counterflow chiller withour ruining my beer? I was whirlpooling then letting rest for 30 minutes and then siphon off the top which was giving me great results.

    Brewing this weekend and either need to solve for or go back to the IC until I figure it out.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    I'm experimenting with this now. The last brew I made was with the pump recircing. Some full bore, then I choked it down to the valve open maybe 25%? But I was pulling off the bottom and and returning at the top with a hose over the side certainly causing turbulent flow. Next brew I'm going to use a whirlpool return at the top of the IC with a much lower pump flow and see what that results in. If I'm not happy I'll add another bulkhead so I can pull off the top and return wherever I decide to return. Eventually I want to go to a CFC, but that's down the road.
    Bottom line is document what you are doing if for no other reason than information for me [-O<<br />
    Oh, and this stuff is still in the bucket. So I'm not sure how clear/not clear it is yet.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    I wonder if I could put some sort of screen over the valve inside the BK and filter out the trub? I guess not because it would probably clog. I'm not sure I will use the chiller this time until I figure out how to do this properly. I too am thinking about adding another bulk head in order to siphon above the the trub. I may also try hand whirlpooling, letting rest for 30 min and the pull through the bulk head.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    That's a possibility. Although, if you are going for a one shot drain (no recirc) you will still have to pull off the bottom or close enough to it so not to leave a bunch of wort behind.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    a hop-back can be used to filter the wort before hitting the pump.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    I talked to the guy at the LHBS he has a ton of experience. He recommended using some sort of a filer like a false bottom or a inline filter and move the pump to the between the chiller and the BK and pull the wort through the chiller versus pushing it through. I think for the next beer I might go with my old method of whirlpooling and then siphon off the top.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    How does moving the pump to after the cfc help? The break material is still going through the pump... I like the false bottom thing. I might even try that since I sort of have one already.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    Something about creating less turbulence or something. He was getting busy and needed to get to other customers.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    jlw said:

    Something about creating less turbulence or something. He was getting busy and needed to get to other customers.



    i wouldn't count on that making any difference in this case. filtering is your best option, the false bottom thing is basically a built in hop back, but requires leaf hops. the little strainer thing doesn't work well with pellets. an external hop back allows you to use a small amount of whole leaf and filter out everything funky
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    I bag my hops these days so would the false bottom work?
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    jlw said:

    I bag my hops these days so would the false bottom work?



    Not really. The leaf hops act as a filter for the finer break materials.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    CB said:

    jlw said:

    I bag my hops these days so would the false bottom work?



    Not really. The leaf hops act as a filter for the finer break materials.

    I see what your saying now. Hmmm. I'm starting think whirlpool and then the IC is the better way to go.

  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    CB said:

    jlw said:

    I bag my hops these days so would the false bottom work?



    Not really. The leaf hops act as a filter for the finer break materials.


    correct. it's the same principal as you has in the mash tun. the hulls and husks create a filter bed that traps most of the protein that makes the wort cloudy. thats why you vorlauf to set the grain bed and start seeing clear wort.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    jlw said:

    CB said:

    jlw said:

    I bag my hops these days so would the false bottom work?



    Not really. The leaf hops act as a filter for the finer break materials.

    I see what your saying now. Hmmm. I'm starting think whirlpool and then the IC is the better way to go.


    In the short term maybe. CFC's are significantly more efficient. Wanna sell the cfc? :D
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    yeah, CFCs are terrible. they ruin your beer.

    {starts new thread} Want to buy - Counter flow Chiller offering $40.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    really i would just look at racking from the top and running it through the cfc for the near term.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    Lakewood said:

    really i would just look at racking from the top and running it through the cfc for the near term.



    So rack from the bk while still hot into a bucket and then run through the cfc?
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    No I just thought through it. So run tubing from the pump into the top of the kettle and siphon off the top versus through the bulk head.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    jlw said:

    No I just thought through it. So run tubing from the pump into the top of the kettle and siphon off the top versus through the bulk head.



    yes
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny