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Eisbock Recipe Build
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    Let's get this thing rolling. First question:

    What style is a traditional Eisbock made from? Doing some reading today and I'm not finding my answer. What would the German's make it out of?
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    Based on the above reading I am thinking a dopplebock.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 48,087
    That's pretty much what my perception is...... brew up a Dopplebock ... decoction mash and all..... then allow to begin to freeze .... remove the ice crystals ...
    Every thing I have read on the subject recommends a long lagering after the freezing part to smooth it out .. and balance the malt/alcohol. I would be tempted to skip the lagering period before freezing to save time.
    In wine there is wisdom.
    In beer there is freedom.
    In water there is bacteria.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 48,087
    To me the hard part is judging when to stop freezing ..... go to far and you will loose malt character .... not enough and you don't do anything ...
    In wine there is wisdom.
    In beer there is freedom.
    In water there is bacteria.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    What about using an Alt? I have one sitting in primary right now.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    ceannt said:

    To me the hard part is judging when to stop freezing ..... go to far and you will loose malt character .... not enough and you don't do anything ...



    Based on some reasing it sounds like the time to remive the ice is when it start to get slushy. But do youremove the ice or rack the beer off of the ice?
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 48,087
    jlw said:

    What about using an Alt? I have one sitting in primary right now.



    I think that would be an Eisalt ....
    In wine there is wisdom.
    In beer there is freedom.
    In water there is bacteria.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 48,087
    jlw said:

    ceannt said:

    To me the hard part is judging when to stop freezing ..... go to far and you will loose malt character .... not enough and you don't do anything ...



    Based on some reasing it sounds like the time to remive the ice is when it start to get slushy. But do youremove the ice or rack the beer off of the ice?


    My understanding is to scoop out the ice crystals with a sanitized spoon ...
    In wine there is wisdom.
    In beer there is freedom.
    In water there is bacteria.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 48,087
    II think the bigger and maltyer beer the better ... well to a point ... maybe something between 7.5 and 9% APV ...
    an alt might not leave enough .... uh.... guts to stand up to the increased alcohol
    In wine there is wisdom.
    In beer there is freedom.
    In water there is bacteria.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 48,087
    Now if you wanted to just make ice distilled whiskey ..... and freeze it hard a couple of times .... the alt may be a good place to start ..
    In wine there is wisdom.
    In beer there is freedom.
    In water there is bacteria.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    ceannt said:

    II think the bigger and maltyer beer the better ... well to a point ... maybe something between 7.5 and 9% APV ...
    an alt might not leave enough .... uh.... guts to stand up to the increased alcohol


    Unless I hear any other dissension on the matter we will build a dopplebock. i guess let's start building a recipe.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    An article worth reading on the history of the dopplebock

    http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/Doppelbock.html

  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    An article worth reading on the history of the Eisbock

    http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/Eisbock.html
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    first stab at a dopplebock recipe. What do you think?


    BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
    Recipe: Ewalds Dopplebock
    Brewer: Z German
    Asst Brewer:
    Style: Doppelbock
    TYPE: All Grain
    Taste: (30.0)

    Recipe Specifications
    --------------------------
    Boil Size: 7.23 gal
    Post Boil Volume: 5.72 gal
    Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
    Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
    Estimated OG: 1.095 SG
    Estimated Color: 24.0 SRM
    Estimated IBU: 24.5 IBUs
    Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
    Est Mash Efficiency: 82.5 %
    Boil Time: 75 Minutes

    Ingredients:
    ------------
    Amt Name Type # %/IBU
    14 lbs 12.2 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 1 85.3 %
    15.9 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.7 %
    1 lbs 4.4 oz Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.4 %
    4.4 oz Chocolate Wheat Malt (400.0 SRM) Grain 4 1.6 %
    1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil Hop 5 11.8 IBUs
    1.00 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 12.7 IBUs
    1.0 pkg German Bock Lager (White Labs #WLP833) [ Yeast 7 -


    Mash Schedule: Decoction Mash, Double
    Total Grain Weight: 17 lbs 4.8 oz
    ----------------------------
    Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
    Protein Rest Add 35.60 qt of water at 128.2 F 122.0 F 35 min
    Saccharification Decoct 11.77 qt of mash and boil it 147.0 F 20 min
    Saccharification Decoct 5.87 qt of mash and boil it 156.0 F 20 min
    Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min 168.0 F 10 min

    Sparge: Drain mash tun, Batch sparge with 1 steps (0.66gal) of 168.0 F water
    Notes:
    ------


    Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 48,087
    That'll work
    In wine there is wisdom.
    In beer there is freedom.
    In water there is bacteria.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    ceannt said:

    That'll work



    how does the mash schedule look? Seems pretty standard.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 48,087
    I would be tempted to skip the 147 degree rest ... and extend the 156 to an hour .... but what you have may be more traditional ... that's pretty similar to what you used on the o-fest? How did it turn out? If you liked it .... go for it
    In wine there is wisdom.
    In beer there is freedom.
    In water there is bacteria.
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    ceannt said:

    I would be tempted to skip the 147 degree rest ... and extend the 156 to an hour .... but what you have may be more traditional ... that's pretty similar to what you used on the o-fest? How did it turn out? If you liked it .... go for it



    I agree with the above, when I have made an eisbock I used a simple martzen base but amped up a bit to up the ABV, then I poured it in sanitized plastic water bottles, the PET ones that babies r us nursery water comes in, I drilled a load of holes in a second lid, screwed it on and turned it upside down on a pitcher, within minutes the alcohol began dripping out into the pitcher, there was a notable break when the alcohol was mostly out and all that was left was ice. I kept it chilled and carbed low in a soda bottle with a carb cap, served it as a cordial in a snifter after a dinner of sauerbraten, spaetzel, and red cabbage. That was a meal worthy of being served as your last!
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • scoobscoob
    Posts: 16,617
    I don't normally keep Pilsen malt on hand, so I might be tempted to up the Munich by a pound, aside from that it looks pretty yummy, the chocolate wheat has a nice velvety mouthfeel that might get lost when freezing. But will help maintain a beery feel after concentrated. One thing, hop bitterness goes up with freeze concentrating, your recipe seems right on target in that respect
    Jesus didn't wear pants
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    Thanks for the feedback. Now I just have to find time to brew.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 46,586
    if i were going to do it (on purpose, this time), I'd do the freezing in the keg, then transfer to another using co2. the tricky part would be guessing when it's frozen enough.

    as for the letting it lager after you eis it, it may not take all that long to get it tasty. i accidentally eised a pale ale, about 1/2 way through the keg. i couldn't figure out why the beer suddenly turned delicious and a good bit stronger until i went to clean it out and had a big ring of slush in there. there wasn't the slightest bit of harshness to smooth out.

    and the alt sounds delicious eised. after the pale, i'd say that a bunch of beer styles would turn out as good eis-whatevers.
    "Oh, you were serious? I was drunk."-C_B
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    planning for this beer in two weeks
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 48,087
    jlw said:

    planning for this beer in two weeks



    Sweet
    In wine there is wisdom.
    In beer there is freedom.
    In water there is bacteria.
  • jlwjlw
    Posts: 16,417
    Can you all take another look at the grain bill and the mash steps. I'm not over familiar with style so I want to make sure I have a good beer with the recipe.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 46,586
    jlw said:

    Can you all take another look at the grain bill and the mash steps. I'm not over familiar with style so I want to make sure I have a good beer with the recipe.



    the grain bill looks delicious, but from my limited experience with decoction mashes, i'd shorten the protein rest to 15-20 minutes. with modern malts that rest really doesn't make a big impact. if you were using cheap undermodified malts it would help but 15 min should be all you need. then i'd raise it up to 147 for 15-20 and bump it up to the 156 for about 30 minutes.
    "Oh, you were serious? I was drunk."-C_B