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HLT-less HERMs
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    This discussion was created from comments split from: Does anyone brew electric? How big of an element?.

    The idea here is to have a HERMs system without the HLT. Heating water from an wood fired outdoor boiler would be used to heat the strike water, maintain the mash and heat sparge water. I am picturing a counterflow HEX with both heating and cooing inputs on one side with the wort side plumbed for mash recirc or fresh water for strike/sparge. Thinking out loud, I should be able to fly sparge with one pump this way....

    Anyway, most of the technical stuff for this is above my paygrade so I'm reaching out to the gurus of HBF for insight.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766

    Now to control the heat exchanger so i get the right temp at the output.


    that's going to be a fair bit tricky.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Lakewood said:

    Now to control the heat exchanger so i get the right temp at the output.


    that's going to be a fair bit tricky.

    Sorta what I was thinking.
    Basically I'll have a circulating supply loop of 180*-190* water that I can tap into to run to the HEX. These are the possibilities that I've come up with so far...
    Full flow the heating water and meter the wort flow.
    -I'm not sure how this could even work. Once the output temp is overshot and the flow stopped, the wort in the HEX will just would equalize at ~185*. No bueno.
    Full flow the wort and meter the heating water.
    -In this case "full flow" would actually be as fast as safe to recirc the mash.
    -This should work for both step mashes and just to maintain mash temp.

    The tricky part is how to meter the flow of heating water without completely shutting of that whole loop to the furnace and hot water heater also. Reduced flow to those items during this time would be ok though.
    I would like to use this HEX for the strike water also if possible. It would save some extra plumbing, but it isn't a requirement.


    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    I just had a thought...

    I could run a dedicated loop from the domestic hot water heater to the HEX. The water in the hot water heater will be maintained at 185*ish Year round due to the outdoor boiler. I can use a hot water recirc type system (bought or built) to run this loop. The output temp of the product side of the HEX would control the flow of heating water.
    I would be able to draw strike water right off of this loop when blended with cold domestic water. With a little plumbing I could probably get the same thermowell in the HEX output to control this as well.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Sooooo, Lake..... Had a thought....
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    C_B said:

    Sooooo, Lake..... Had a thought....



    Uh, oh.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    I'm thinking about how to use my equipment to brew in my kitchen.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Pretend I have an unlimited supply of 175* degree water at hand.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    C_B said:

    Pretend I have an unlimited supply of 175* degree water at hand.



    You're thinking that practical considerations limit your indoor brewing?
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Use the hot water and my current heat exchanger to heat the strike water on demand, step mashes, mashout, fly sparge, whatever up to the boil.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Pretend I have an unlimited supply of 175* degree water at hand.



    You're thinking that practical considerations limit your indoor brewing?

    I'll have a 1" line recirculating 400 gallons of 175* water a foot below the kitchen floor. It wouldn't really be pretending.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    C_B said:

    Use the hot water and my current heat exchanger to heat the strike water on demand, step mashes, mashout, fly sparge, whatever up to the boil.


    The boil is the problem. Electric obviously. But in the kitchen, I could use the range outlet.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    C_B said:

    Use the hot water and my current heat exchanger to heat the strike water on demand, step mashes, mashout, fly sparge, whatever up to the boil.



    Yeah. It's exactly what we discussed before...except now you want to do it in the kitchen.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Use the hot water and my current heat exchanger to heat the strike water on demand, step mashes, mashout, fly sparge, whatever up to the boil.



    Yeah. It's exactly what we discussed before...except now you want to do it in the kitchen.


    I've never talked about boiling with electric. That was always for and HLT.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    The question for you is how legit is using that hot water for that purpose?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Pretend I have an unlimited supply of 175* degree water at hand.



    You're thinking that practical considerations limit your indoor brewing?

    I'll have a 1" line recirculating 400 gallons of 175* water a foot below the kitchen floor. It wouldn't really be pretending.


    I get it. Still doesn't change the real issue.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Pretend I have an unlimited supply of 175* degree water at hand.



    You're thinking that practical considerations limit your indoor brewing?

    I'll have a 1" line recirculating 400 gallons of 175* water a foot below the kitchen floor. It wouldn't really be pretending.


    I get it. Still doesn't change the real issue.


    Which is?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Controlling it without it being expensive as fuck?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Probably something else I'll never follow up on.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Then there's the pump issue. Where to put it.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    And if I make a mess. Yeah that'd be bad.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    C_B said:

    The question for you is how legit is using that hot water for that purpose?



    It will work just fine. Though at 175 it will take a while for some of the higher steps.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Pretend I have an unlimited supply of 175* degree water at hand.



    You're thinking that practical considerations limit your indoor brewing?

    I'll have a 1" line recirculating 400 gallons of 175* water a foot below the kitchen floor. It wouldn't really be pretending.


    I get it. Still doesn't change the real issue.


    Which is?


    You will make a mess.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    C_B said:

    Then there's the pump issue. Where to put it.



    Somewher between the ground and the brewery.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    The question for you is how legit is using that hot water for that purpose?



    It will work just fine. Though at 175 it will take a while for some of the higher steps.

    I don't do steps now. So I'm thinking if it'll work for strike water and a lowish flow for mashout....
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Pretend I have an unlimited supply of 175* degree water at hand.



    You're thinking that practical considerations limit your indoor brewing?

    I'll have a 1" line recirculating 400 gallons of 175* water a foot below the kitchen floor. It wouldn't really be pretending.


    I get it. Still doesn't change the real issue.


    Which is?


    You will make a mess.


    No truer words... But at least I could make a mess when it's cold as fuck outside and I otherwise wouldn't be brewing.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants