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Beer gas?
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    This discussion was created from places.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Anyone know anything about serving on beer gas?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    C_B said:

    Anyone know anything about serving on beer gas?



    I've been researching Stout taps and serving on beer gas etc. Mainly because I want to do the thing where the kegerator is in the basement and the taps are in the kitchen. The kicker seems to be the line. I need 1/4, but I have 3/16.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 48,472
    pre carb it, and use a beer engine. That way the pressure needed to push it up, doesn't over carb it. Get it carbed, and under just enough pressure to fill what is displaced by pumping it upstairs... does that make any fucking sense at all?
    In wine there is wisdom.
    In beer there is freedom.
    In water there is bacteria.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 48,472
    probably not
    In wine there is wisdom.
    In beer there is freedom.
    In water there is bacteria.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    C_B said:

    C_B said:

    Anyone know anything about serving on beer gas?



    I've been researching Stout taps and serving on beer gas etc. Mainly because I want to do the thing where the kegerator is in the basement and the taps are in the kitchen. The kicker seems to be the line. I need 1/4, but I have 3/16.


    pressure in keg - ( pressure drop from vertical rise + flow restriction pressure drop ) = 0.

    start with a normal keg pressure ~ 12psi
    figure out the drop from the vertical rise.
    get the difference .
    then figure out how long the line will be and then you can figure out the appropriate ID.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • CurlyFatCurlyFat
    Posts: 62,041
    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    C_B said:

    Anyone know anything about serving on beer gas?



    I've been researching Stout taps and serving on beer gas etc. Mainly because I want to do the thing where the kegerator is in the basement and the taps are in the kitchen. The kicker seems to be the line. I need 1/4, but I have 3/16.


    pressure in keg - ( pressure drop from vertical rise + flow restriction pressure drop ) = 0.

    start with a normal keg pressure ~ 12psi
    figure out the drop from the vertical rise.
    get the difference .
    then figure out how long the line will be and then you can figure out the appropriate ID.


    But he's talking beer gas (partial nitro). Which I have 0 zero knowledge of.

    "Balls."
    - Thym's 100,000th post

  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    DrCurly said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    C_B said:

    Anyone know anything about serving on beer gas?



    I've been researching Stout taps and serving on beer gas etc. Mainly because I want to do the thing where the kegerator is in the basement and the taps are in the kitchen. The kicker seems to be the line. I need 1/4, but I have 3/16.


    pressure in keg - ( pressure drop from vertical rise + flow restriction pressure drop ) = 0.

    start with a normal keg pressure ~ 12psi
    figure out the drop from the vertical rise.
    get the difference .
    then figure out how long the line will be and then you can figure out the appropriate ID.


    But he's talking beer gas (partial nitro). Which I have 0 zero knowledge of.


    it doesn't make any difference. the calcs are the same.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • CurlyFatCurlyFat
    Posts: 62,041
    Lakewood said:

    DrCurly said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    C_B said:

    Anyone know anything about serving on beer gas?



    I've been researching Stout taps and serving on beer gas etc. Mainly because I want to do the thing where the kegerator is in the basement and the taps are in the kitchen. The kicker seems to be the line. I need 1/4, but I have 3/16.


    pressure in keg - ( pressure drop from vertical rise + flow restriction pressure drop ) = 0.

    start with a normal keg pressure ~ 12psi
    figure out the drop from the vertical rise.
    get the difference .
    then figure out how long the line will be and then you can figure out the appropriate ID.


    But he's talking beer gas (partial nitro). Which I have 0 zero knowledge of.


    it doesn't make any difference. the calcs are the same.


    Until you're trying to figure out carb levels. Maybe. Unless the same pressure would keep the co2 dissolved regardless of what gas is holding the pressure.

    Fuck. I don't know shit anymore.

    "Balls."
    - Thym's 100,000th post

  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    DrCurly said:

    Lakewood said:

    DrCurly said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    C_B said:

    Anyone know anything about serving on beer gas?



    I've been researching Stout taps and serving on beer gas etc. Mainly because I want to do the thing where the kegerator is in the basement and the taps are in the kitchen. The kicker seems to be the line. I need 1/4, but I have 3/16.


    pressure in keg - ( pressure drop from vertical rise + flow restriction pressure drop ) = 0.

    start with a normal keg pressure ~ 12psi
    figure out the drop from the vertical rise.
    get the difference .
    then figure out how long the line will be and then you can figure out the appropriate ID.


    But he's talking beer gas (partial nitro). Which I have 0 zero knowledge of.


    it doesn't make any difference. the calcs are the same.


    Until you're trying to figure out carb levels. Maybe. Unless the same pressure would keep the co2 dissolved regardless of what gas is holding the pressure.

    Fuck. I don't know shit anymore.


    same pressure, less CO2, so the flavor is different. but the pressures and pressure balance is the same.... unless you want a foamy mess.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    C_B said:

    Anyone know anything about serving on beer gas?



    I've been researching Stout taps and serving on beer gas etc. Mainly because I want to do the thing where the kegerator is in the basement and the taps are in the kitchen. The kicker seems to be the line. I need 1/4, but I have 3/16.


    pressure in keg - ( pressure drop from vertical rise + flow restriction pressure drop ) = 0.

    start with a normal keg pressure ~ 12psi
    figure out the drop from the vertical rise.
    get the difference .
    then figure out how long the line will be and then you can figure out the appropriate ID.


    Yeah I understand the math. The calculations say I should use 1/4" line at that pressure. But what if I use 30psi beer gas on 3/16 and still net enough positive pressure at the faucet for a normal/slow pour? ~1psi. On a 65/35 gas mix is that the same as having it at 10psi on CO2?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Lakewood said:

    DrCurly said:

    Lakewood said:

    DrCurly said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    C_B said:

    Anyone know anything about serving on beer gas?



    I've been researching Stout taps and serving on beer gas etc. Mainly because I want to do the thing where the kegerator is in the basement and the taps are in the kitchen. The kicker seems to be the line. I need 1/4, but I have 3/16.


    pressure in keg - ( pressure drop from vertical rise + flow restriction pressure drop ) = 0.

    start with a normal keg pressure ~ 12psi
    figure out the drop from the vertical rise.
    get the difference .
    then figure out how long the line will be and then you can figure out the appropriate ID.


    But he's talking beer gas (partial nitro). Which I have 0 zero knowledge of.


    it doesn't make any difference. the calcs are the same.


    Until you're trying to figure out carb levels. Maybe. Unless the same pressure would keep the co2 dissolved regardless of what gas is holding the pressure.

    Fuck. I don't know shit anymore.


    same pressure, less CO2, so the flavor is different. but the pressures and pressure balance is the same.... unless you want a foamy mess.


    Kinda...
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    I'll probably just roll with the 1/4" line. It's cheap enough when I fail I won't be mad about torching $140 worth of barrier line.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    C_B said:

    Anyone know anything about serving on beer gas?



    I've been researching Stout taps and serving on beer gas etc. Mainly because I want to do the thing where the kegerator is in the basement and the taps are in the kitchen. The kicker seems to be the line. I need 1/4, but I have 3/16.


    pressure in keg - ( pressure drop from vertical rise + flow restriction pressure drop ) = 0.

    start with a normal keg pressure ~ 12psi
    figure out the drop from the vertical rise.
    get the difference .
    then figure out how long the line will be and then you can figure out the appropriate ID.


    Yeah I understand the math. The calculations say I should use 1/4" line at that pressure. But what if I use 30psi beer gas on 3/16 and still net enough positive pressure at the faucet for a normal/slow pour? ~1psi. On a 65/35 gas mix is that the same as having it at 10psi on CO2?


    The co2 content may be about the same, but the extra nitro bubbles will be a bit odd.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • JerryJerry
    Posts: 75,507
    The diameter has very little effect on if it will lift or not, it willwill, however have a large impact on flow rate. If you don't mind a very slow pour, you could go even smaller.
    For every foot of height you lose 0.43psi. So do the math and try running it with the hose you have at the the pressure you calculated the tap will be at. If that works for you, install.

    The kind of gas you use doesn't matter.
    "Again?"
    CurlyFat's 60,000th post
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630

    The diameter has very little effect on if it will lift or not, it willwill, however have a large impact on flow rate. If you don't mind a very slow pour, you could go even smaller.
    For every foot of height you lose 0.43psi. So do the math and try running it with the hose you have at the the pressure you calculated the tap will be at. If that works for you, install.

    The kind of gas you use doesn't matter.



    The gas matters for how much CO2 gets dissolved into the solution.

    ~25psi should give me a decent pour.

    If that's beer gas will the beer be generally carbed correctly if I don't force carb on pure CO2 first? If I toss a fresh/flat keg on beer gas at ~25psi will it be flat or carbed? What is the calculation for CO2 volumes of a blended gas at a given temp and pressure?

    If I'm going with CO2 I have to go up in size so keep it at/below 15psi. So that's pretty simple.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • JerryJerry
    Posts: 75,507
    15 psi will be about 11psi at the tap, seems like that would work even with the smaller line.
    "Again?"
    CurlyFat's 60,000th post
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630

    15 psi will be about 11psi at the tap, seems like that would work even with the smaller line.



    Having no other inputs, you've made quite an assumption here.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    C_B said:

    15 psi will be about 11psi at the tap, seems like that would work even with the smaller line.



    Having no other inputs, you've made quite an assumption here.


    yeah, don't let his post count fool you.

    On your actual question:

    a 50% co2 beer gas at 25 psi will provide the same level of dissolved carbon dioxide as 12.5psi straight co2. But you may have some foaming issues on first pour since the whole line will be at 25 psi while the tap is closed. as soon as you open it the pressure at the tap end drops to 0. the bigger the transient, the more foaming you'll experience.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,766
    always carbonate your beer before putting it on beer gas. always.

    The beer gas is there to maintain the carb level while pushing the beer out of the keg.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630
    Lakewood said:

    always carbonate your beer before putting it on beer gas. always.

    The beer gas is there to maintain the carb level while pushing the beer out of the keg.



    Ok so this is key.

    The answer is I need 1/4 " line.

    Anyone want to buy some 3/16 " accuflex barrier tubing?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • JerryJerry
    Posts: 75,507
    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    always carbonate your beer before putting it on beer gas. always.

    The beer gas is there to maintain the carb level while pushing the beer out of the keg.



    Ok so this is key.

    The answer is I need 1/4 " line.

    Anyone want to buy some 3/16 " accuflex barrier tubing?


    I'll pay shipping.
    "Again?"
    CurlyFat's 60,000th post
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630

    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    always carbonate your beer before putting it on beer gas. always.

    The beer gas is there to maintain the carb level while pushing the beer out of the keg.



    Ok so this is key.

    The answer is I need 1/4 " line.

    Anyone want to buy some 3/16 " accuflex barrier tubing?


    I'll pay shipping.


    Ok. Shipping will be three easy payments of 39.99.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 46,885
    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    always carbonate your beer before putting it on beer gas. always.

    The beer gas is there to maintain the carb level while pushing the beer out of the keg.



    Ok so this is key.

    The answer is I need 1/4 " line.

    Anyone want to buy some 3/16 " accuflex barrier tubing?


    is is used/already cut?
    "Oh, you were serious? I was drunk."-C_B
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 77,630

    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    always carbonate your beer before putting it on beer gas. always.

    The beer gas is there to maintain the carb level while pushing the beer out of the keg.



    Ok so this is key.

    The answer is I need 1/4 " line.

    Anyone want to buy some 3/16 " accuflex barrier tubing?


    is is used/already cut?


    Nope. New (4 years ago) 100' coil.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • JerryJerry
    Posts: 75,507
    C_B said:

    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    always carbonate your beer before putting it on beer gas. always.

    The beer gas is there to maintain the carb level while pushing the beer out of the keg.



    Ok so this is key.

    The answer is I need 1/4 " line.

    Anyone want to buy some 3/16 " accuflex barrier tubing?


    is is used/already cut?


    Nope. New (4 years ago) 100' coil.


    $35 shipped?
    "Again?"
    CurlyFat's 60,000th post