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Direct fired single vessel BIAB.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,289
    I've proven repeatedly that I can't/won't brew outside like I'm set up now. I've been thinking about RIMS, all electric, BIAB, basically any combination that would allow me to brew 5 gallon batches in the kitchen without using the stove. So follow me on this...

    Keggle with a 5500+ watt element mounted as low as possible. (i could easily pull in a 50A circuit to run a hotter element)
    False bottom build to sit about 1" above the element.
    Control the element with a PID.
    BIAB mash while recirculating from the bottom and returning on top of the grain.
    Pull the bag and ramp to boil.

    Why won't that work?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • CurlyFatCurlyFat
    Posts: 57,428
    C_B said:

    I've proven repeatedly that I can't/won't brew outside like I'm set up now. I've been thinking about RIMS, all electric, BIAB, basically any combination that would allow me to brew 5 gallon batches in the kitchen without using the stove. So follow me on this...

    Keggle with a 5500+ watt element mounted as low as possible. (i could easily pull in a 50A circuit to run a hotter element)
    False bottom build to sit about 1" above the element.
    Control the element with a PID.
    BIAB mash while recirculating from the bottom and returning on top of the grain.
    Pull the bag and ramp to boil.

    Why won't that work?



    Sounds reasonable. Do you plan to sparge at all? Or just say screw efficiency?

    "Can't not finish it if you never start it.
    "
    - C_B

  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,289
    DrCurly said:

    C_B said:

    I've proven repeatedly that I can't/won't brew outside like I'm set up now. I've been thinking about RIMS, all electric, BIAB, basically any combination that would allow me to brew 5 gallon batches in the kitchen without using the stove. So follow me on this...

    Keggle with a 5500+ watt element mounted as low as possible. (i could easily pull in a 50A circuit to run a hotter element)
    False bottom build to sit about 1" above the element.
    Control the element with a PID.
    BIAB mash while recirculating from the bottom and returning on top of the grain.
    Pull the bag and ramp to boil.

    Why won't that work?



    Sounds reasonable. Do you plan to sparge at all? Or just say screw efficiency?


    I've seen some BIAB setups that don't sparge and still get reasonable efficiency. I can't find any of those examples right now...
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • CurlyFatCurlyFat
    Posts: 57,428
    C_B said:

    DrCurly said:

    C_B said:

    I've proven repeatedly that I can't/won't brew outside like I'm set up now. I've been thinking about RIMS, all electric, BIAB, basically any combination that would allow me to brew 5 gallon batches in the kitchen without using the stove. So follow me on this...

    Keggle with a 5500+ watt element mounted as low as possible. (i could easily pull in a 50A circuit to run a hotter element)
    False bottom build to sit about 1" above the element.
    Control the element with a PID.
    BIAB mash while recirculating from the bottom and returning on top of the grain.
    Pull the bag and ramp to boil.

    Why won't that work?



    Sounds reasonable. Do you plan to sparge at all? Or just say screw efficiency?


    I've seen some BIAB setups that don't sparge and still get reasonable efficiency. I can't find any of those examples right now...


    I'm suspicious, but intrigued.

    I would think you could still sort-of sparge by pouring water over it or something.

    "Can't not finish it if you never start it.
    "
    - C_B

  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,289
    DrCurly said:

    C_B said:

    DrCurly said:

    C_B said:

    I've proven repeatedly that I can't/won't brew outside like I'm set up now. I've been thinking about RIMS, all electric, BIAB, basically any combination that would allow me to brew 5 gallon batches in the kitchen without using the stove. So follow me on this...

    Keggle with a 5500+ watt element mounted as low as possible. (i could easily pull in a 50A circuit to run a hotter element)
    False bottom build to sit about 1" above the element.
    Control the element with a PID.
    BIAB mash while recirculating from the bottom and returning on top of the grain.
    Pull the bag and ramp to boil.

    Why won't that work?



    Sounds reasonable. Do you plan to sparge at all? Or just say screw efficiency?


    I've seen some BIAB setups that don't sparge and still get reasonable efficiency. I can't find any of those examples right now...


    I'm suspicious, but intrigued.

    I would think you could still sort-of sparge by pouring water over it or something.


    That's option two. My understanding is BIAB is usually mashed thin anyway, like quite thin. That will improve efficiency. I would think higher gravity brews would see drastically lower efficiency with no sparge.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,289
    Plus, in the setup I'm describing I'd lose at least 2 gallons below the false bottom. The mash would be epic thin assuming those system constraints.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • CurlyFatCurlyFat
    Posts: 57,428
    C_B said:

    DrCurly said:

    C_B said:

    DrCurly said:

    C_B said:

    I've proven repeatedly that I can't/won't brew outside like I'm set up now. I've been thinking about RIMS, all electric, BIAB, basically any combination that would allow me to brew 5 gallon batches in the kitchen without using the stove. So follow me on this...

    Keggle with a 5500+ watt element mounted as low as possible. (i could easily pull in a 50A circuit to run a hotter element)
    False bottom build to sit about 1" above the element.
    Control the element with a PID.
    BIAB mash while recirculating from the bottom and returning on top of the grain.
    Pull the bag and ramp to boil.

    Why won't that work?



    Sounds reasonable. Do you plan to sparge at all? Or just say screw efficiency?


    I've seen some BIAB setups that don't sparge and still get reasonable efficiency. I can't find any of those examples right now...


    I'm suspicious, but intrigued.

    I would think you could still sort-of sparge by pouring water over it or something.


    That's option two. My understanding is BIAB is usually mashed thin anyway, like quite thin. That will improve efficiency. I would think higher gravity brews would see drastically lower efficiency with no sparge.


    I recall a mash that was too thin caused problems, but I'm so far out of the nerdery of brewing I can't remember what that problem was.

    "Can't not finish it if you never start it.
    "
    - C_B

  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,289
    DrCurly said:

    C_B said:

    DrCurly said:

    C_B said:

    DrCurly said:

    C_B said:

    I've proven repeatedly that I can't/won't brew outside like I'm set up now. I've been thinking about RIMS, all electric, BIAB, basically any combination that would allow me to brew 5 gallon batches in the kitchen without using the stove. So follow me on this...

    Keggle with a 5500+ watt element mounted as low as possible. (i could easily pull in a 50A circuit to run a hotter element)
    False bottom build to sit about 1" above the element.
    Control the element with a PID.
    BIAB mash while recirculating from the bottom and returning on top of the grain.
    Pull the bag and ramp to boil.

    Why won't that work?



    Sounds reasonable. Do you plan to sparge at all? Or just say screw efficiency?


    I've seen some BIAB setups that don't sparge and still get reasonable efficiency. I can't find any of those examples right now...


    I'm suspicious, but intrigued.

    I would think you could still sort-of sparge by pouring water over it or something.


    That's option two. My understanding is BIAB is usually mashed thin anyway, like quite thin. That will improve efficiency. I would think higher gravity brews would see drastically lower efficiency with no sparge.


    I recall a mash that was too thin caused problems, but I'm so far out of the nerdery of brewing I can't remember what that problem was.


    Tannins probably. It's always tannins
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • CurlyFatCurlyFat
    Posts: 57,428
    C_B said:

    DrCurly said:

    C_B said:

    DrCurly said:

    C_B said:

    DrCurly said:

    C_B said:

    I've proven repeatedly that I can't/won't brew outside like I'm set up now. I've been thinking about RIMS, all electric, BIAB, basically any combination that would allow me to brew 5 gallon batches in the kitchen without using the stove. So follow me on this...

    Keggle with a 5500+ watt element mounted as low as possible. (i could easily pull in a 50A circuit to run a hotter element)
    False bottom build to sit about 1" above the element.
    Control the element with a PID.
    BIAB mash while recirculating from the bottom and returning on top of the grain.
    Pull the bag and ramp to boil.

    Why won't that work?



    Sounds reasonable. Do you plan to sparge at all? Or just say screw efficiency?


    I've seen some BIAB setups that don't sparge and still get reasonable efficiency. I can't find any of those examples right now...


    I'm suspicious, but intrigued.

    I would think you could still sort-of sparge by pouring water over it or something.


    That's option two. My understanding is BIAB is usually mashed thin anyway, like quite thin. That will improve efficiency. I would think higher gravity brews would see drastically lower efficiency with no sparge.


    I recall a mash that was too thin caused problems, but I'm so far out of the nerdery of brewing I can't remember what that problem was.


    Tannins probably. It's always tannins


    It's always the tannins....

    No, really, i think it was efficiency concerns, but those kinds of things are de-bunked all the time, so who knows.

    "Can't not finish it if you never start it.
    "
    - C_B

  • CurlyFatCurlyFat
    Posts: 57,428
    Enzymes too diluted or something scientific sounding...

    "Can't not finish it if you never start it.
    "
    - C_B

  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,289
    DrCurly said:

    Enzymes too diluted or something scientific sounding...



    That might be. I'd like to see @ceannt opinion.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • CurlyFatCurlyFat
    Posts: 57,428
    C_B said:

    DrCurly said:

    Enzymes too diluted or something scientific sounding...



    That might be. I'd like to see @ceannt opinion.


    we're going to need a bigger page.

    "Can't not finish it if you never start it.
    "
    - C_B

  • JerryJerry
    Posts: 71,128
    DrCurly said:

    Enzymes too diluted or something scientific sounding...



    That sounds bogus to me. And if it was a real problem, just add a little time.
  • CurlyFatCurlyFat
    Posts: 57,428

    DrCurly said:

    Enzymes too diluted or something scientific sounding...



    That sounds bogus to me. And if it was a real problem, just add a little time.


    Exactly. Like I said, I don't remember why I use to care about grain/water ratio. There was some reason for it.

    "Can't not finish it if you never start it.
    "
    - C_B

  • JerryJerry
    Posts: 71,128
    DrCurly said:

    DrCurly said:

    Enzymes too diluted or something scientific sounding...



    That sounds bogus to me. And if it was a real problem, just add a little time.


    Exactly. Like I said, I don't remember why I use to care about grain/water ratio. There was some reason for it.


    better efficiency if you go thick and do three batch spagres.
  • JerryJerry
    Posts: 71,128
    Seems like BIAB could have a quick dip in some water to really up the efficiency, but I get that would also make it far more complex.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,289

    Seems like BIAB could have a quick dip in some water to really up the efficiency, but I get that would also make it far more complex.



    Just pulling it up and rinsing it with a gallon or two might do the trick. I haven't mathed any of this, I'm just wondering if the single vessel idea makes a lick of sense.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • JerryJerry
    Posts: 71,128
    Just do it. You'll see if it works. Worst case, you get wimpy beer.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,289

    Just do it. You'll see if it works. Worst case, you get wimpy beer.



    To do this is would need appropriate bulkheads installed into the kettle. A heating element. PID wired to the element. A false bottom custom made and a huge grain bag.

    That's a couple hundred away? That's workable.

    Oh, and clean the pump. Because I think that is where I'm getting the funk.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 99,833
    C_B said:

    Seems like BIAB could have a quick dip in some water to really up the efficiency, but I get that would also make it far more complex.



    Just pulling it up and rinsing it with a gallon or two might do the trick. I haven't mathed any of this, I'm just wondering if the single vessel idea makes a lick of sense.




    Thats what i did to start brewing all grain. Single vessel system biab. Sparge by pouring filtered water through the top of the bag after letting it drain. Worked great. Not sure why i switched to a two vessel system.


    Oh i thought a more complex meant more better. I was wrong

    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 99,833
    C_B said:

    Just do it. You'll see if it works. Worst case, you get wimpy beer.



    To do this is would need appropriate bulkheads installed into the kettle. A heating element. PID wired to the element. A false bottom custom made and a huge grain bag.

    That's a couple hundred away? That's workable.

    Oh, and clean the pump. Because I think that is where I'm getting the funk.


    Honestly, unless you plan on doing complex step mashes, the pump is not necessary.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 99,833
    Oh and thebfalse bottom isnt really necessary either. You're brewing in a bag.thats the best false bottom you can find.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 99,833

    C_B
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,289
    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Just do it. You'll see if it works. Worst case, you get wimpy beer.



    To do this is would need appropriate bulkheads installed into the kettle. A heating element. PID wired to the element. A false bottom custom made and a huge grain bag.

    That's a couple hundred away? That's workable.

    Oh, and clean the pump. Because I think that is where I'm getting the funk.


    Honestly, unless you plan on doing complex step mashes, the pump is not necessary.


    I don't really. But I need the pump to chill the batch, so I might as well recirc the whole time to insure even heat distribution.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,289
    Lakewood said:

    Oh and thebfalse bottom isnt really necessary either. You're brewing in a bag.thats the best false bottom you can find.



    Agreed. But I'd like to make absolutely sure the bag won't sink down far enough to sit on top of the heating element. Plus, the false bottom would be an extra line of filtration at the end.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • JerryJerry
    Posts: 71,128
    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    Oh and thebfalse bottom isnt really necessary either. You're brewing in a bag.thats the best false bottom you can find.



    Agreed. But I'd like to make absolutely sure the bag won't sink down far enough to sit on top of the heating element. Plus, the false bottom would be an extra line of filtration at the end.


    Borrow the rack from your toaster oven.