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E-HLT with automatic temp control build
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,323
    The last two years I have used the kitchen stove to heat 3.5 gallons of strike water to mash in a 5 gallon cooler MLT. Run off into the keggle and add top up water and extract. I want to get a away from that for a variety of reasons, the first of which is we just bought a glasstop and I'm not allowed anymore. Sooooooooooo I need some help with working out the deets for an e-HLT.

    Project Scope: Convert keggle into an E-HLT with a temp controller.
    Short term goal: Gain ability to heat a large enough volume of water to complete all grain 10 gallon batches.
    Long term goal: Plumb with MLT and kettle to bring all component's into one consolidated "rig" controlled through one GUI.
    Budget: $200 (for the HLT)
    Current on hand resources relative to this project: Keggle with site glass and valve. Kent QDs to utilize single pump.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 99,886
    I assume you have 220VAC power available... what amperage?

    What are you looking for in terms of ramp rates? Are you planning on using it as a HERMS heat source in the future is is that not in the plan? (simpler if the answer is no)

    For temp control do you want it to be a self contained dedicated temp controller or do you want to use an integrated, software based controller?
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,323
    Lakewood said:

    I assume you have 220VAC power available... what amperage?

    What are you looking for in terms of ramp rates? Are you planning on using it as a HERMS heat source in the future is is that not in the plan? (simpler if the answer is no)

    For temp control do you want it to be a self contained dedicated temp controller or do you want to use an integrated, software based controller?


    220 yes. At least 30.
    Ramp rates aren't a large concern. 8 gallons to 180 in under 20 minutes?
    No plans for HERMS at a later date.
    As far as control goes, it could be as simple on/off and dedicated. Software based would lead well into other integration, but that isn't a necessity for this project unless it's simplish and cheapish.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • JerryJerry
    Posts: 71,128
    How do you feel about outside? Knowing a little about you, you should look into rocket stoves....or tap into you wood furnace.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,323

    How do you feel about outside? Knowing a little about you, you should look into rocket stoves....or tap into you wood furnace.



    Tapping into the wood stove is another option. I've thought about it and I like the idea if I can hard plumb it. Right now I just want an HLT so I can brew dammit.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 99,886
    C_B said:

    How do you feel about outside? Knowing a little about you, you should look into rocket stoves....or tap into you wood furnace.



    Tapping into the wood stove is another option. I've thought about it and I like the idea if I can hard plumb it. Right now I just want an HLT so I can brew dammit.


    I say start simple.

    A couple ssrs a good heater element and a simple controller. We could use process machines to control it if you want to use a laptop for a gui. Otherwise a dedicated pid controller can be had on ebay for cheap

    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,323
    Simple is more likely to happen, I completely agree.

    I love the idea of using Process Machines because I want to be there eventually and it would be badass. If it add a level of cost or complexity that reduces the likelihood of success I say PID.

    Buuut. Process Machines would add a unique dimension to this project. I say we go that route.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 99,886
    Let me look into where things are with the Process Machines.

    With process machines:
    need a laptop to control.
    Need a usb cable to connect
    need a little black box for the brains / low voltage power supply
    Need a power interface / relay enclosure
    need a temp sensor

    with a dedicated pid
    need the pid unit
    need a panel to mount the unit to
    need a low voltage power supply for relays
    need power interface / relay enclosure
    need temp sensor

    Cost wise the dedicated pid may be a touch cheaper if you go with the elcheapo ebay unit, but if you buy a love or johnson brand controller I could do the PM version for a bit less...
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,323
    If cost is close, I'd rather go PM. Unless there is a LOT more work involved somehow. But I'm guessing not?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,323
    Unless you recommend against PM, let's plan for that.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,323
    Lakewood said:

    Let me look into where things are with the Process Machines.

    With process machines:
    need a laptop to control.
    Need a usb cable to connect
    need a little black box for the brains / low voltage power supply
    Need a power interface / relay enclosure
    need a temp sensor



    So that brings us here. I have the laptop. And probably a USB cable, but I might want a longer one. I'll check the circuit I'm planning to use also.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • JerryJerry
    Posts: 71,128
    C_B said:

    Simple is more likely to happen, I completely agree.



    So three cinder blocks a wood fire and to make it "automatic" a digital thermometer that beeps when it's at temp.

    C_B
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,323
    30 amp circuit going to the dryer. That's the easiest one to get where I need to go.

    However, there is a spot in my panel that has been recently vacated by the water heater that I no longer use. I could put in whatever I want. I could put a 50 amp circuit in right there and make the pigtail for the HLT long enough to go back to that plug. That would require a 30' cord though where using the dryer outlet would be more like 10'.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 99,886
    C_B said:

    30 amp circuit going to the dryer. That's the easiest one to get where I need to go.

    However, there is a spot in my panel that has been recently vacated by the water heater that I no longer use. I could put in whatever I want. I could put a 50 amp circuit in right there and make the pigtail for the HLT long enough to go back to that plug. That would require a 30' cord though where using the dryer outlet would be more like 10'.



    k

    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 99,886
    ok, so i looked back at my notes to get a feel for how much work remains to get process machines into a deployable state and although the software looks pretty complete, there is still a ton of USB interface and the firmware for the hardware interface kit... not to mention having to build some additional hardware... so:

    im going to recommend we build a dedicated heater control with one of these

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-All-Purpose-PID-Temperature-Control-Controller-STC-1000-W-Sensor-110V-/321306690168?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4acf5f0278

    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,323
    Lakewood said:

    ok, so i looked back at my notes to get a feel for how much work remains to get process machines into a deployable state and although the software looks pretty complete, there is still a ton of USB interface and the firmware for the hardware interface kit... not to mention having to build some additional hardware... so:

    im going to recommend we build a dedicated heater control with one of these

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-All-Purpose-PID-Temperature-Control-Controller-STC-1000-W-Sensor-110V-/321306690168?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4acf5f0278



    I'm good with that. I have a Love that I use for ferm chamber and other things. I could use that one.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 99,886
    ok. I recommend getting three of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-40DA-40A-250V-3-32VDC-/121340070783?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c406e8b7f

    three because it's good to have a spare just in case, and i recommend switching both hot leads instead of just one. yes, you *could* just switch one lead. but that's how mine is set up and in my experience the leakage current through the devices goes way up when they are hot and it may not shut off all the way.

    you;ll need an aluminum enclosure to mount the SSRs in - i recommend something finned so its better at dissipating the heat.

    you'll need something to provide DC power for the SSR controls, a 12-20V wall wart will work.

    at that point we have most of the big stuff. you'll need to decide if you want to make the aluminum box big enough to hold the PID unit or if you would rather have it mounted separately. Then we can figure out the wiring.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,323
    A quick search gives me this...

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/S2607-All-Aluminum-amp-Enclosure-DIY-amplifier-BOX-PSU-Case-/121138702197?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item1c346de775

    I'm trying to lay this out in my head.... Dryer outlet - cable - enclosure with SSRs and PID - Element power cable - Element (with small waterproof enclosure at the vessel)
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,323
    Or I could get this and toss in two extra SSRs. Replace the potentiometer with a PID.

    http://www.stilldragon.com/diy-controller.html
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 99,886
    That amp enclosure is pretty sweet. Overkill, but sweet.

    That other kit could work, but im not sure about the control input on the ssr, so you'd need to get the specs to determine how to dive it.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,323
    I'm also considering a bottom drain. But in an HLT with with dip tube right in the center what's the point?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 99,886
    C_B said:

    I'm also considering a bottom drain. But in an HLT with with dip tube right in the center what's the point?



    No reason for both
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,323
    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    I'm also considering a bottom drain. But in an HLT with with dip tube right in the center what's the point?



    No reason for both


    Sorry to confuse. The vessel has one port in it currently that has a failure in the weld on the inside so it won't hold suction. I'm going to drill that one out and replace it with the element. Then put a new bulkhead in for a diptube. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo, diptube or bottom drain? Bottom drain is swanky, but normal bulkhead is easy.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 99,886
    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    I'm also considering a bottom drain. But in an HLT with with dip tube right in the center what's the point?



    No reason for both


    Sorry to confuse. The vessel has one port in it currently that has a failure in the weld on the inside so it won't hold suction. I'm going to drill that one out and replace it with the element. Then put a new bulkhead in for a diptube. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo, diptube or bottom drain? Bottom drain is swanky, but normal bulkhead is easy.


    ohh.. well if you are going to install one or the other, i would do a bottom drain if you have a means for supporting the hlt that wont interfere with the bottom drain. it's actually easier to weld the fitting on the bottom.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 76,323
    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    I'm also considering a bottom drain. But in an HLT with with dip tube right in the center what's the point?



    No reason for both


    Sorry to confuse. The vessel has one port in it currently that has a failure in the weld on the inside so it won't hold suction. I'm going to drill that one out and replace it with the element. Then put a new bulkhead in for a diptube. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo, diptube or bottom drain? Bottom drain is swanky, but normal bulkhead is easy.


    ohh.. well if you are going to install one or the other, i would do a bottom drain if you have a means for supporting the hlt that wont interfere with the bottom drain. it's actually easier to weld the fitting on the bottom.

    Positioning is an issue. If this was going on/into a "rig" maybe... But I'm just not sure about future applications, so I think the side wall is safer.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 99,886
    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    I'm also considering a bottom drain. But in an HLT with with dip tube right in the center what's the point?



    No reason for both


    Sorry to confuse. The vessel has one port in it currently that has a failure in the weld on the inside so it won't hold suction. I'm going to drill that one out and replace it with the element. Then put a new bulkhead in for a diptube. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo, diptube or bottom drain? Bottom drain is swanky, but normal bulkhead is easy.


    ohh.. well if you are going to install one or the other, i would do a bottom drain if you have a means for supporting the hlt that wont interfere with the bottom drain. it's actually easier to weld the fitting on the bottom.

    Positioning is an issue. If this was going on/into a "rig" maybe... But I'm just not sure about future applications, so I think the side wall is safer.


    are you welding it yourself or do you have someone doing the welding for you? and if it's someone else are you paying them?

    i ask because what im about to suggest would be uber cool but expensive if you are paying someone to do the welding for you...
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny