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Berliner Weiss for Benvarine
  • morsmors
    Posts: 231
    WLP677 pitched into 2/3 gallon 1.038 wort. Held at 110F for 30 days. (with airlock - no stir plate)
    4lbs Best Malz Pils
    3lbs Best Malz White Wheat Malt
    1oz Hallertauer 4% AA @15

    Mashed at 148F for 2 hours.
    15 minute boil for a 6 gallon batch.

    Chilled to 110F. decanted starter. pitched lacto. Holding at 100-110F until the pH drops to roughly 3. Then I will be pitching WLP011
    BJCP A0936 National Beer Judge and Mead Judge
    Cicerone Certified Beer Server
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    Sons of Liberty Homebrew Club
    HBT "mors"
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    I'm not familiar with this process. I've heard of a few ways to create a sour beer but nothing like this. No hops either? I've made a few sours, basically made a base beer, then racked after fermentation is complete and pitched another blend, typically Roeselare or a lambic strain. Let sit for a long time and bottle.

    Berliner Weiss is a quicker recipe however right? It usually does not age for months/years right?

    Can you expand on your process? Long mash, short boil, high pitch temp? Very intrigued.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,164
    I too am intrigued, I've never heard of anyone doing this.

    @benvarine there is an ounce of hallertau in the recipe.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    Yea, missed the hops. Sorry.
  • morsmors
    Posts: 231
    traditionally it is aged out to become quite tart. But it's not required to age out. Since you don't' necessarily need brett or peddio in there it doesn't need to age a long time.

    Lactobacillus grows and is happiest around 110F. So that's the best temp to make a starter at or to have it start chewing away at your wort at. Once the pH is low enough I will be pitching the ale yeast (after cooling down to about 63F).

    I'm not sure which parts you're unfamiliar with so if you have any questions let me know. The basic idea for pitching the lacto first then the yeast was presented at the NHC a few years ago by Wyeast or White Labs... Can't recall which. It's suppose to give the lacto a head start so it can produce more tartness.
    BJCP A0936 National Beer Judge and Mead Judge
    Cicerone Certified Beer Server
    AHA Member
    CRAFT Homebrew Club
    Sons of Liberty Homebrew Club
    HBT "mors"
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    I had heard of making a mash or wort and souring it for a day to two, more depending on how sour you want it. Can be done by pitching or by throwing some grain into it because grain has lacto all over it. To be held at 100F ideally. Then doing a full boil, 60-90 depending on how you roll. Then when done, cool and pitch yeast. Boil stops and kills the lacto so it won't get any more sour, ferment as usual, carb and serve.

    So basic difference is you sour, then pitch yeast without killing off the lacto first. That is the part I was unfamiliar with. Have you done this before or is this your first run? Sounds fun.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 48,261
    Benvarine said:

    I had heard of making a mash or wort and souring it for a day to two, more depending on how sour you want it. Can be done by pitching or by throwing some grain into it because grain has lacto all over it. To be held at 100F ideally. Then doing a full boil, 60-90 depending on how you roll. Then when done, cool and pitch yeast. Boil stops and kills the lacto so it won't get any more sour, ferment as usual, carb and serve.

    So basic difference is you sour, then pitch yeast without killing off the lacto first. That is the part I was unfamiliar with. Have you done this before or is this your first run? Sounds fun.



    yeah, this.... sour mash I am familiar with, this is a whole different methodology...
    In wine there is wisdom.
    In beer there is freedom.
    In water there is bacteria.
  • morsmors
    Posts: 231
    Yeah I've done it before. Even with using the grains to sour the worth you don't need to boil it. I've done it both ways. You definitely lose some complexity if you boil it and kill all the lat...but you won't have lacto in your brew house that way...
    BJCP A0936 National Beer Judge and Mead Judge
    Cicerone Certified Beer Server
    AHA Member
    CRAFT Homebrew Club
    Sons of Liberty Homebrew Club
    HBT "mors"
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 103,164
    huh. i would have assumed that the lacto would completely over-run the wort if you didn't boil it after a sour mash. in fact i believe the process of boiling wort in brewing originated as a way of keeping the lacto on the grain from taking over the wort.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • morsmors
    Posts: 231
    Yeah if you don't boil the lacto will take hold. If you pitch a yeast first though there might not be enough sugars left for the lacto to produce enough sourness. This is why you let the lacto have head start.
    BJCP A0936 National Beer Judge and Mead Judge
    Cicerone Certified Beer Server
    AHA Member
    CRAFT Homebrew Club
    Sons of Liberty Homebrew Club
    HBT "mors"
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    mors said:

    Yeah if you don't boil the lacto will take hold. If you pitch a yeast first though there might not be enough sugars left for the lacto to produce enough sourness. This is why you let the lacto have head start.



    That makes sense, repeatability might be difficult if that's important to you. I can see where you might get varying levels of sourness from batch to batch because it might depend on how quick or how well your yeast fights.
  • morsmors
    Posts: 231
    Benvarine said:

    mors said:

    Yeah if you don't boil the lacto will take hold. If you pitch a yeast first though there might not be enough sugars left for the lacto to produce enough sourness. This is why you let the lacto have head start.



    That makes sense, repeatability might be difficult if that's important to you. I can see where you might get varying levels of sourness from batch to batch because it might depend on how quick or how well your yeast fights.

    That's why you would take a pH reading before pitching the yeast.
    BJCP A0936 National Beer Judge and Mead Judge
    Cicerone Certified Beer Server
    AHA Member
    CRAFT Homebrew Club
    Sons of Liberty Homebrew Club
    HBT "mors"