Getting weird with Lacto/Brett
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    Sooooo....

    With the three day weekend I finally have some time to brew a little (literally, a small batch). I decided to try something that would need a long time in the fermenter seeing as I am pretty busy with work and class. I decided to try some pseudo-Berliner Weisse thing with a "sour mash."

    The grist is as follows:

    1.5 lbs Pilsen
    0.5 lbs White Wheat
    0.25 lbs Midnight Wheat


    0.25 oz Hallertau


    Now for the strange part. I am going to split the batch (total of 2 gallons) into two pots. One will be brewed per normal, and I am going to pitch WLP004. The other half I am going to add some grain to, and let sit out for approx 24 hours to get it sour from the lactobacillus. Next, after 24 hours of souring I am going pitch a vial of white labs Brett C. and then let it sit for a month or more. After a month I plan to blend the Brett half with the WLP004 half and maybe even rack it onto some plums.


    This is going to get weird, haha.

    I guess what I am getting at -- does anyone see anything inherently wrong with pitching the Brett after I left that half of the wort sour up a bit? I will heat up the soured wort to 180 F for a bit to kill off the lactobacillus before pitching my Brett.

    Anyways, just thought I would share.
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,656
    not weird at all. i love brett beers and i have a lacto experiment in the works right now as well.


    keep us posted on this one!
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    Awesome. Thank you for the reassurance!
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,590
    this sounds like a solid plan as far as experiments go. as for the result, i have no clue what it will turn out like, but it has a lot of promise.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,590
    i suggest taking tasting notes on each part of the experiment just to get a guage of what is going on.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    Lakewood said:

    i suggest taking tasting notes on each part of the experiment just to get a guage of what is going on.



    I am going to be keeping a very close eye on this thing, whatever it is. Haha.
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,590
    Please post the details as you go. I'm very interested in how much flavor you get from the lacto.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    I wouldn't even bother with pasteurizing the lacto. It won't hurt a thing.
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  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,656
    jeepinjeepin said:

    I wouldn't even bother with pasteurizing the lacto. It won't hurt a thing.



    i would, so you can harvest the pure brett to use again. they're like $10 a pop!
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,656
    you can get them for half price here, it's 'expired' but for experiments like this, it should be just fine.

    http://www.farmhousebrewingsupply.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=493
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    I was getting a little weary with souring of the half of my wart after a few days, and was discussing it with one Microbiology professor tonight. He suggested maybe trying a sourdough starter, as it contains lactobacillus (one of the 985769606 strains). I picked up a packet of sourdough starter on the way home tonight, and began doing a little research. There is yeast and lacto in the starter pack, and the yeast used for sourdough apparently is not a fan of maltose... which may seem like a bad thing, BUT IT ISN'T. This is actually perfect as I wanted almost no yeast activity UNTIL I pitch the brett, which will come after the lactobacillus has had a chance to run around and raise hell.

    Not sure if any of this crap makes sense to you all, but it makes sense to me upstairs (I think), and now it is just a question of whether or not this is going do anything.
    Even if the yeast were to eat a bit of the sugar, the O.G. of the half I am souring is only 1.024 anyways.
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    FromZwolle said:

    you can get them for half price here, it's 'expired' but for experiments like this, it should be just fine.

    http://www.farmhousebrewingsupply.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=493



    My LHBS must be doing very well, as they have been selling all yeast vials sacc/brett for $6.99, and then they have the past due vials for half off, but be assured there are no past due vials of brett... I have looked, a lot!
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,656
    Evan_B said:

    FromZwolle said:

    you can get them for half price here, it's 'expired' but for experiments like this, it should be just fine.

    http://www.farmhousebrewingsupply.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=493



    My LHBS must be doing very well, as they have been selling all yeast vials sacc/brett for $6.99, and then they have the past due vials for half off, but be assured there are no past due vials of brett... I have looked, a lot!


    that's what the 'normal' strains usually go for.

    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    FromZwolle said:

    jeepinjeepin said:

    I wouldn't even bother with pasteurizing the lacto. It won't hurt a thing.



    i would, so you can harvest the pure brett to use again. they're like $10 a pop!


    This is where starters really shine and its a plus to White Labs. Make your starter, decant a portion to your empty vial, and pitch the rest.
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  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    Slants are a good way to avoid paying for yeast for a year or more. I am just lazy and don't make them enough as I should.
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • morsmors
    Posts: 231
    When doing a sour mash... I like to do it in a sanke keg for one simple reason... I can purge it of oxygen with co2. under co2 many of the 'bad' bacterias will not be active in the sour mash.
    BJCP A0936 National Beer Judge and Mead Judge
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  • themonstermasherthemonstermasher
    Posts: 25
    I've never had a sour beer. What's it taste like?
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    Buy some, they are great. All are different. As the name implies, they are sour.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,656
    themonstermasher said:

    I've never had a sour beer. What's it taste like?


    if you can find bell's oarsman ale, that's a great starting point for sour beers. It's brewed using a sour mash. From there you can try some lambic, flanders red/brown, berliner wiesse, etc, but i find that those are really hard to find in my area.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,656
    Benvarine said:

    Buy some, they are great. All are different. As the name implies, they are sour.



    if we're including brett in the sour beer category, try some of those.

    goose island-matilda is a good one to try if you're wondering what brett b contributes to a beer.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    Last night I set my gallon jug, with the STILL not souring wort, onto a small candle warmer I found lying around the house. I went to work this morning with nothing changed, and I returned home just now to find a nice pelicle forming over the top.

    I have never been more excited to see an infection!!!!!

    I think I'll quick boil, cool, and pitch the Brett this Sat. morning.... or whenever I wake up.
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,656
    Evan_B said:

    Last night I set my gallon jug, with the STILL not souring wort, onto a small candle warmer I found lying around the house. I went to work this morning with nothing changed, and I returned home just now to find a nice pelicle forming over the top.

    I have never been more excited to see an infection!!!!!

    I think I'll quick boil, cool, and pitch the Brett this Sat. morning.... or whenever I wake up.



    pics!!!!
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    image
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,590
    Evan_B said:

    image



    need to upload directly
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • jeepinjeepinjeepinjeepin
    Posts: 18,099
    Not the intent of the thread, but here is my sour beer. \m/
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  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    Wow, I am reallllllly jealous, haha.
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    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,590
    Evan_B said:

    Wow, I am reallllllly jealous, haha.



    have you taken any samples?
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    I did tonight. It definitely has some funkiness to it, but it is also has a watered down taste. I'm gonna give it some more time to get strange. I don't quite know how to explain the taste. It almost smells like rootbeer.
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    Okay okay, NOW I have never been so excited to see an infection!
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    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,656
    ayep, there they are. here are some of mine:

    http://homebrewforums.net/discussion/536/oh-noes-infection#Item_16
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    FromZwolle said:

    ayep, there they are. here are some of mine:

    http://homebrewforums.net/discussion/536/oh-noes-infection#Item_16



    Some of those are pretty gnarly...

    I am still wrapping my head around drinking this at some point, haha, but I am getting used to the idea.
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • Evan_BEvan_B
    Posts: 312
    One question. Do lactobacillus infections, or can they resemble fermentation? It looks like the wort is fermenting despite not having any yeast ...
    Amigo, lay them raises down.
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,656
    lacto does eat up all the sugar, it just produces lactic acid instead of alcohol. some strains produce gas and some don't. i wouldn't be surprised at all if it looked like it was fermenting like sacc.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
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