Barleywine build thread
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    This discussion was created from comments split from The Land of Magical Enchantment.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    Anyone ever done a barleywine partial mash? Like half DME?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,573
    C_dubbs said:

    Anyone ever done a barleywine partial mash? Like half DME?



    no
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    Lakewood said:

    C_dubbs said:

    Anyone ever done a barleywine partial mash? Like half DME?



    no

    I'm thinking about how I'm going to utilize this DME.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • CurlyFatCurlyFat
    Posts: 71,622
    C_dubbs said:

    Anyone ever done a barleywine partial mash? Like half DME?



    I did a belgian barley wine where about half the fermentables were sugar. It was BYO's 15th anniversary Ale recipe. It turned out amazing after about a year. I was struggling with my refractometer and ended up way overshooting the gravity. Mine ended up at almost 16%. It was pretty crazy.


    I took a short one a couple hours ago. It was nice. --
    C_B

  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    MrCool said:

    C_dubbs said:

    Anyone ever done a barleywine partial mash? Like half DME?



    I did a belgian barley wine where about half the fermentables were sugar. It was BYO's 15th anniversary Ale recipe. It turned out amazing after about a year. I was struggling with my refractometer and ended up way overshooting the gravity. Mine ended up at almost 16%. It was pretty crazy.


    Damn. Maybe I'll do a big American Barleywine. Maybe just 5 gallons.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    Bottle it. Forget about it.
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  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    partial mash barleywines are easy
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  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    max out your mash tun with a good flavorful base malt.... MO... golden promise... something like that there... and about a pound of medium crystal

    piping_pig
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  • ceanntceannt
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    then add a shit ton of extract
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  • ceanntceannt
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    LME works a little better.... easier to disolve the amounts involved
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  • ceanntceannt
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    hop it pretty high........ so after it has aged it won't be overly sweet
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  • ceanntceannt
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    IBU should be around 75 or higher......

    piping_pig
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  • ceanntceannt
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    late addition hops.... what ever you like, but be advised.... if you age it for long it will slack off on you
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  • ceanntceannt
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    the secret is to not bottle/keg too early
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  • ceanntceannt
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    let it ferment for a good three months
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  • ceanntceannt
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    an' that's all I 'ave to say 'bout that
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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    C_dubbs said:

    ceannt said:

    partial mash barleywines are easy


    ceannt said:

    max out your mash tun with a good flavorful base malt.... MO... golden promise... something like that there... and about a pound of medium crystal


    ceannt said:

    then add a shit ton of extract


    ceannt said:

    LME works a little better.... easier to disolve the amounts involved


    ceannt said:

    hop it pretty high........ so after it has aged it won't be overly sweet


    ceannt said:

    IBU should be around 75 or higher......


    ceannt said:

    late addition hops.... what ever you like, but be advised.... if you age it for long it will slack off on you


    ceannt said:

    the secret is to not bottle/keg too early


    ceannt said:

    let it ferment for a good three months


    This is my way of writing this down.

    Thinking about trying to do a batch that targets for 6 gallons in the bucket. That way I can max out the carboy and let it bulk age a while. I don't know if that really matters though. With a 3 month primary. Just bottle it and forget about it.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    I've pretty well decided this is either number two or three on deck. I'll have up to 8 lbs of DME and 1.5 lbs of corn sugar (I think that's what is in that bag) to get rid of. I'm not sure I want to make 10 gallons. I'll probably bottle this one anyway. Before we get into numbers and amounts I've read C-60, oats and Victory malt seems to be things common to homebrewed barleywines. Thoughts?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    Also, my MLT holds ~17 pounds of grain. So I'm going to fill that up then bring the batch up to gravity with DME. Still not sure if I want to do 5 gallons or 10...

    What are some thoughts on long aging in a bulk vessel vs bottles? Kenny said to primary for 3 months then bottle/keg. I could do 10 gallons and bulk age half and bottle the other half after three months...

    IDK, toss up some thoughts here.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    This is a good one to bulk age ..... and one of the few I would consider racking .... say after a month and a half. If you bottle, you will need to add yeast at bottling ... champagne would work well with the high apv .... might be more predictable to just keg

    piping_pig
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  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Keep the grain bill really simple ..... I like barleywines with just base malt .... bur some crystal adds a little depth .... if you use plain 2 row ... add a couple pounds of light munich
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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    Month and a half primary, 2-6 month bulk age, add yeast and bottle. With rehydrated yeast and proper mixing even carbonation shouldn't really be an issue? I really think I want this one bottled. Depending on exactly where I target the abv I'm not going to want it tying up a tap.
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  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Should be fine .... just don't over add the yeast
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  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Here is a quick and dirty example .... for a 6 gallon batch

    15 pounds base malt
    1 pound C60
    Mash at 152 or so
    Add 5 pounds DME late in boil
    Should give you an og of 1.110 with an apv around 10.7%

    Srm is around 10.... add a touch of chocolate malt to adjust color if you like
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  • ceanntceannt
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    And of course bump up the DME if you want it bigger .........
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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    ceannt said:

    And of course bump up the DME if you want it bigger .........



    That's about where I want it. I was thinking 12% would be tops.
    10 gallons would be a boatload of DME...
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,654
    ceannt said:

    Here is a quick and dirty example .... for a 6 gallon batch

    15 pounds base malt
    1 pound C60
    Mash at 152 or so
    Add 5 pounds DME late in boil
    Should give you an og of 1.110 with an apv around 10.7%

    Srm is around 10.... add a touch of chocolate malt to adjust color if you like



    yep.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • FuzzyFuzzy
    Posts: 49,654
    i have no opinion on barleywines. just do what kenny says.
    The pinnacle of lame and awesome in one singular moment. -Lake
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    American Barleywine PM

    BJCP Style
    American Barleywine
    Recipe Type
    Partial Mash
    Batch Size
    6 gallons

    Malt & Fermentables
    % LB OZ °L PPG
    72% 16 ~ Golden Promise 2° 32
    23% 5 ~ Briess DME Golden Light 5° 43
    5% 1 ~ Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L 60° 34
    1% ~ 2 Chocolate Malt 475° 34

    Specific Gravity
    1.105 OG
    (1.094 to 1.109)
    24.8° Plato
    1.030 FG
    (1.027 to 1.033)
    7.6° Plato

    Color
    15° SRM
    Light Brown to Medium Brown

    Mash Efficiency
    75 %

    Hops
    Usage Time OZ AA » IBU
    boil 60 min 1 ½ Magnum ~ pellet 14.0 » 59.3

    Bitterness
    59.3 IBU

    BU:GU
    0.57

    Yeast
    British Ale (WLP005)
    yeast in liquid form with high flocculation and 71% attenuation

    Alcohol
    10.0% ABV
    8.0% ABW

    Calories
    348
    per 12 oz.

    Here's where I'm at so far. I think more hops. It's an American Barleywine for Pete's sake. Maybe a bit of Centennial at 10 or 15 minutes maybe? An ounce? Maybe two?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    I don't know anything about hops for a barleywine. A quick google gave me magnum, that's why I plugged it in. But I have Nugget and UK WGV in the freezer. Nugget should do fine?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Magnum is fine .... save the WGV for an esb or something .... all the subtly will be..... lost in this one
    and up the IBU to like 75 or 80
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  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Make sure your yeast is fairly attenuative and can handle the high apv ..... or it will taste like Karo syrup .......
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  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Start off cool .... let it ramp up to around 70-74 after a couple weeks .... and rouse that yeast every couple of days
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  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    A beer this big needs to be babyed .. if it bombs out on you .... and the fg is still real high after a month or so ...... rehydrate a half pack of K1v.... and jump start it
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  • C_BC_B
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    Attenuative like 73% or 74% or more?
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  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    C_dubbs said:

    Attenuative like 73% or 74% or more?



    That range is good
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  • frydogbrewsfrydogbrews
    Posts: 44,679
    the thing i like about barleywine is the aging. it allows you to do things that are otherwise kind of taboo. if it stalls on you, bring the temp up. like way up! aging it for a year will clear up the methanols and junk thrown out by the yeast and you will pretty much guarantee high attenuation.

    my buddy made one that he aged for 2.5 years and it was phenomenal. mostly because he didn't use a bunch of crystal so it didn't get crazy sweet with all that age.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    frydogbrews said:

    the thing i like about barleywine is the aging. it allows you to do things that are otherwise kind of taboo. if it stalls on you, bring the temp up. like way up! aging it for a year will clear up the methanols and junk thrown out by the yeast and you will pretty much guarantee high attenuation.

    my buddy made one that he aged for 2.5 years and it was phenomenal. mostly because he didn't use a bunch of crystal so it didn't get crazy sweet with all that age.



    I'm planning a long time. Around year maybe? Tentatively going to bulk age for 6 or 7 months after the primary. Then go to bottles. Plans subject to change.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,573
    C_dubbs said:

    frydogbrews said:

    the thing i like about barleywine is the aging. it allows you to do things that are otherwise kind of taboo. if it stalls on you, bring the temp up. like way up! aging it for a year will clear up the methanols and junk thrown out by the yeast and you will pretty much guarantee high attenuation.

    my buddy made one that he aged for 2.5 years and it was phenomenal. mostly because he didn't use a bunch of crystal so it didn't get crazy sweet with all that age.



    I'm planning a long time. Around year maybe? Tentatively going to bulk age for 6 or 7 months after the primary. Then go to bottles. Plans subject to change.


    i'd probably do 3-4 mo primary, then rack to a secondary to bulk age for 6-7 months before bottling.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    Lakewood said:

    C_dubbs said:

    frydogbrews said:

    the thing i like about barleywine is the aging. it allows you to do things that are otherwise kind of taboo. if it stalls on you, bring the temp up. like way up! aging it for a year will clear up the methanols and junk thrown out by the yeast and you will pretty much guarantee high attenuation.

    my buddy made one that he aged for 2.5 years and it was phenomenal. mostly because he didn't use a bunch of crystal so it didn't get crazy sweet with all that age.



    I'm planning a long time. Around year maybe? Tentatively going to bulk age for 6 or 7 months after the primary. Then go to bottles. Plans subject to change.


    i'd probably do 3-4 mo primary, then rack to a secondary to bulk age for 6-7 months before bottling.

    That sounds about right. I might stay on the shorter end of that primary but I want it to be *pretty well* aged out and good when it goes to bottles. Waiting months on end in bottles isn't likely to happen.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • BenvarineBenvarine
    Posts: 1,606
    For aging store in fridge to help preserve hop flavor, warmer and hops will turn sweet. Throw in some raisins soaked in bourbon if you want to add complexity and kick up ABV a bit. I've never made one, so this is just second hand research, take it for what it's worth.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    Sooooo..... I'm looking at this again. I think I want to 10 gallons of this. 5 gallons on a 10 gallons system seems like such a waste. The question is, how much DME can I use before it's too much? 50% of the malt? 60%?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    Fermentables
    Amount Fermentable Use Type PPG Color
    44% Golden Promise Simpson's Grain 37 2
    6% Chocolate Malt Bairds Grain 32 475
    3% Caramel Malt 60L Briess Grain 34 60
    47% Golden Light DME Briess DME 43 4

    This puts me at 1.101 on an 11 gallon batch at 75% eff. Am I going to get ill effects from that much DME?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,573
    C_B said:

    Sooooo..... I'm looking at this again. I think I want to 10 gallons of this. 5 gallons on a 10 gallons system seems like such a waste. The question is, how much DME can I use before it's too much? 50% of the malt? 60%?



    You've made extract beers before, how much of the grist was DME?
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Sooooo..... I'm looking at this again. I think I want to 10 gallons of this. 5 gallons on a 10 gallons system seems like such a waste. The question is, how much DME can I use before it's too much? 50% of the malt? 60%?



    You've made extract beers before, how much of the grist was DME?


    Hahaha. I thought someone might make that point. I guess I'm looking for reassurance...
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Do you have that warm fuzzy feeling of reassurance yet?
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  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Just add the extract late .... it will be just fine
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  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,573
    ceannt said:

    Just add the extract late .... it will be just fine



    if you do that you'll need to adjust your hop schedule
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Base your IBU calcs on the grain part ... easy

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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    Help me with the hops calcs please... I took out the DME and adjusted the hops to four ounces giving me 83 IBUs. Then added the DME back in. Does that amount of hops sound right for a late DME addition PM like this? I know exactly nothing about hops calculations.
    Here is the recipe.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,573
    C_B said:

    Help me with the hops calcs please... I took out the DME and adjusted the hops to four ounces giving me 83 IBUs. Then added the DME back in. Does that amount of hops sound right for a late DME addition PM like this? I know exactly nothing about hops calculations.
    Here is the recipe.



    use my recipe calculation spreadsheet in the tools section. enter everything except the late addition dme like normal, then put the dme in as a post-boil adjunct. the ibu calcs will be correct. i dont play with frogs.
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Help me with the hops calcs please... I took out the DME and adjusted the hops to four ounces giving me 83 IBUs. Then added the DME back in. Does that amount of hops sound right for a late DME addition PM like this? I know exactly nothing about hops calculations.
    Here is the recipe.



    use my recipe calculation spreadsheet in the tools section. enter everything except the late addition dme like normal, then put the dme in as a post-boil adjunct. the ibu calcs will be correct. i dont play with frogs.


    Legit. I'll do this tomorrow night maybe. I tried right now. But Lucas seems to be awake. And that's now my problem
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ThymThym
    Posts: 121,573
    C_B said:

    Lakewood said:

    C_B said:

    Help me with the hops calcs please... I took out the DME and adjusted the hops to four ounces giving me 83 IBUs. Then added the DME back in. Does that amount of hops sound right for a late DME addition PM like this? I know exactly nothing about hops calculations.
    Here is the recipe.



    use my recipe calculation spreadsheet in the tools section. enter everything except the late addition dme like normal, then put the dme in as a post-boil adjunct. the ibu calcs will be correct. i dont play with frogs.


    Legit. I'll do this tomorrow night maybe. I tried right now. But Lucas seems to be awake. And that's now my problem


    good luck with the boy
    The only thing between me and a train wreck is blind luck..... - Kenny
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    The toad gives me 58 IBUs as set and Lake's sheet gives me 59.9. I'll assume the toad has a rounding error.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    5oz of 60 minute hops. Wow. Really? That seems like a lot. But it comes out to 74 IBUs. I think I'm really getting close to this one.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    C_B said:

    5oz of 60 minute hops. Wow. Really? That seems like a lot. But it comes out to 74 IBUs. I think I'm really getting close to this one.



    sounds about right
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    you doing any late addition hops???
    If you are aging for an extended time.... go nuts with it... like another 5-ounces...
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    ceannt said:

    you doing any late addition hops???
    If you are aging for an extended time.... go nuts with it... like another 5-ounces...


    I hadn't planned on any. I didn't figure anything would be left? I figure at least 8 or 9 months of aging. Then to bottles. So the first one would be cracked open around the 9 or 10 month mark. Majority of the batch after a year.
    What hops?
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    They will certainly fade. But if you put enough in there you will get a little flavor and aroma... (the IPA concept)
    what do you have on hand?

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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    ceannt said:

    They will certainly fade. But if you put enough in there you will get a little flavor and aroma... (the IPA concept)
    what do you have on hand?


    Centennial. WGV (thinking an ordinary bitter for this maybe?) and Nugget. I think that is all.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    Centennial would be perfect

    And yes .... use the WGV for a bitter!
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  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    ceannt said:

    Centennial would be perfect

    And yes .... use the WGV for a bitter!



    Sweetness.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • C_BC_B
    Posts: 88,420
    5 ounces at 10 minutes? Or more like 5 minutes? Maybe I'll get someone to stand there and chuck a pellet in every couple seconds for the last 10 minutes.
    "On it. I hate software." ~Cpt Snarklepants
  • ceanntceannt
    Posts: 53,828
    C_B said:

    5 ounces at 10 minutes? Or more like 5 minutes? Maybe I'll get someone to stand there and chuck a pellet in every couple seconds for the last 10 minutes.



    Ha!
    or split it at 10 and 5....
    Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
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